Thread: Strop treatments - How far should we take it PT 2.

One consideration from my field, which is a variety of woodworking: In sanding, it's not only the grit you use, but the pressure, and it's good practice to lighten up with a grit as you use it, which results in gradually shallower scratches even with larger grit, moving the sanded surface towards the next finer grit. There's a commercial abrasive, Micro-Mesh, which uses this to advantage by using larger abrasives than necessary, but putting them in variously soft mounting strata, which regulate effective grit by limiting the pressure.

This would explain why slurry backed by hard stone would behave differently, as a coarser abrasive, than the same slurry on a more flexible backing (strop) that limits the amount of pressure. Also there's the possible consideration that most abrasives gradually break down into finer ones with use.

And a question: could the "paper" strop possibly be Tyvek? That's the stuff those FedEx envelopes that you can't tear are made of, and house wrap, also. It has coarse white fibers laid all in the same direction, and feels a bit slippery/plasticy. It might be a good candidate for quick strops, but I haven't tried it.

Here are the numbers from the experiment back in 2009

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...eriment-2.html


Honest guys I really was kidding about stropping perfectly I just don't believe the Convex OR Degrading edge hypothesis is true within a reasonable time... Keep in mind I was really trying to get the edge to fail, that was my objective I wasn't trying to get longevity out of the edge, I wonder how long I could have gone if the objective of the experiment was changed and I was using CrOx or CBN sprays

I ended the experiment after 76 shaves the razor never failed and continued to give good shaves for some time until that same razor was used to disprove another Hypothesis about taping..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...-theories.html

I like that Brooksie is actually doing hands on testing I really wish more people would, more data points help our cause...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here are the numbers from the experiment back in 2009

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...eriment-2.html


Honest guys I really was kidding about stropping perfectly I just don't believe the Convex OR Degrading edge hypothesis is true within a reasonable time... Keep in mind I was really trying to get the edge to fail, that was my objective I wasn't trying to get longevity out of the edge, I wonder how long I could have gone if the objective of the experiment weas changed and I was using CrOx or CBN sprays

I ended the experiment after 76 shaves the razor never failed and continued to give good shaves for some time until that same razor was used to disprove another Hypothesis about taping..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...-theories.html

I like that Brooksie is actually doing hands on testing I really wish more people would, more data points help our cause...

I am currently doing testing with a razor and CBN but honestly the way its going as of now, after 4 months i dont see any degrading at all,
actually im seeing improvement, 3 laps, pasted strop CBN .125, 2 to 3 shaves a week, in all honesty i think i will get bored wit this experiment before anything happens.

Good to hear from you as well! The more feedback, the better! I think the next razor I do will be finished at 8k then stropped using this method. If we can eventually get the same results as a razor finished on a 12k then we could be saving money on hones.

Who am I kidding. As nice as this is, I still enjoy hones and wouldnt give any of them up to be replaced by pasted anything.

Martin, I think you will end up bored too, I have heard times in the 1-2 year longevity arena

It is good that you guys are going with the Longevity idea behind your testing, I always wanted to try it but I got bored and I was trying to destroy the edge after that I knew I could never try the same thing with edge longevity in mind...

It's been quite some time since I posted anything in this thread and figured it'd be time to give an update.

I've come to appreciate the edge produced from my jnat over the pasted strops.

95% of the time the edge I produce on the Ozuku is simply incredible. Sharp. Smooth. Lasting.

The remaining 5% of the time I'm left baffled as to why the razor doesn't perform as I expect and this stropping method cleans it right up and brings me to the point of pure satisfaction.

I have not been able to over hone/ strop/paste with CBN. It can get to the point of weeping with the .125CBN I do not have that issue with.010 CBN and can do 40-50 laps daily without the weepers.

By weepers I do not mean anything that causes pain, just tiny little spot/cuts that bleed for a short time. A Cold water rinse closes the pores and the bleeding stops, no pain, no stinging.

I achieved the same thing pasting on MAAS a few years ago for almost a year with the same razor. 2 in X’s paste on a fine nylon seatbelt type strop. I was doing many more laps 50-100 each day and shaving straight from the strop, no leather. It just got progressively smoother shave. The bevel became stria free at 100X magnification.

Lately I have been doing 40-60 laps on .010 CBN and get great shaves. Shave straight off the strop no leather. This bevel is also stria free.

I do believe one could maintain a razor for a very long time with paste. I recently sent a honed stria free CBN stropped razor and set of CBN strops to a novice shaver. It will be interesting to see if that edge quality can be maintained by a novice.

Ultimately it will come down to the ability to strop.

Hummm…people have probably been saying that, for at least a couple of hundred years.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I do believe one could maintain a razor for a very long time with paste. I recently sent a honed stria free CBN stropped razor and set of CBN strops to a novice shaver. It will be interesting to see if that edge quality can be maintained by a novice.

I totally agree im 6 months in my testing and honestly the edge is not goin anywhere at all, just good shaves. More interestingly, i would like to hear the feedback from that novice shaver and find out if he can maintain the edge with CBN.
What do you use the CBN on?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Martin, I think you will end up bored too, I have heard times in the 1-2 year longevity arena

Glen im six months in, yes it is boring and really dont think that i will do this for 2 years. My goal was to prove that you can maintain a good shaving edge with paste for a long time, many claims they dont like the edge of pastes or spray's but i find that some stone leave a harsh feeling and a few laps on CBN will smooth it all out. That said for somebody who knows how to strop, but not hone, is surely an easy way to keep a good edge.

I have used CBN on a 12 X3 inch 2mm dense foam glued to ¼ in MDF with excellent results. Holding it to the bench is a pain, a hanging strop is much easier, quicker and I believe builds a stronger edge.

So I have been using a hanging strop, made of a paper fabric called Pellon. It is used to stiffen clothing like shirt collars. It comes with a heat sensitive backing or without, get the one without glue. Available at fabric stores, its random weave holds the CBN well and the soft smooth texture buffs the edge exceptionally well. Iron on fabric tape hold D rings to the one piece 20 inch strop.

It can also be wet, which CBN really needs for maximum performance. A 3 oz. fine mist sprayer from a craft store works best, 3-4 spritz of distilled water.

The progression that I have found that works best and you do need a progression as the grit jumps are very large. After proper honing to at least, 8 -10 k, the higher the better…

1. Strop on Chrome Oxide, on a fine weave Nylon or Sailcloth strop pasted with 2-3 inch X’s, 50-100 laps.

2. Strop on MAAS or Cerium Oxide, on fine weave Nylon or Sailcloth strop pasted with 2-3 inch X’s, 50-100 laps this will remove most stria on the bevel. Flitz and Mothers also work well, but MAAS seems to work best.

3. Strop on .50 CBN, on a Pellon hanging strop, 50-100 laps.

4. Strop on .25 CBN, on a Pellon hanging strop, 50-100 laps.

5. Strop on .125 CBN, on a Pellon strop, 50-100 laps.

6. Strop on .010 CBN, on a Pellon strop, 50-100 laps.

You can go from the MAAS strop to .125 skipping .50 & .25 CBN, but you will have to do more laps on the .125 CBN. Going from MAAS to .010 does not work well. You need at least the .125 to build a good edge. If you do the progression you will need fewer laps and may get a bit smoother edge.

Shave straight off the .010 CBN, no leather. I use a plain, dry Pellon strop to clean a razor that has been shave with, then 20-40 laps on the .010 CBN to refresh the edge and shave. The shaves will get better and better for about a week or two, and then plateau to a very comfortable, smooth shave.

A Micro fiber cloth and hot water rinse keeps the soap & oxidation off the edge after shaving.

Pellon is similar to Tyvex except thicker and not as slick.