Thread: Leather Strops - are they a sham?

Originally Posted by Bang0Bang00

The shave changes after I leather strop. The edge seems to have less bite, though slightly smoother, I find I have to use more force to pull through the hairs. When it's fresh off the CrOx, I have to apply minimal force because it slices like mad. Any pressure and I go from shaving to cutting pretty quick.

Well then the problem is in your strop or stropping &/or you have honed up a convexed edge.

if your degrading your edge, I,m with Oz on that its your stropping and or you have a crap strop. if you use CRoX and then strop and its not shaving without tugging then its in your stropping. if anything you should improve the cutting ability after stropping.

the leather is the most important part of blade maintenance. if the edge is right , leather will not hurt done properly Tc

Most likely, my technique sucks.

I will continue to experiment.

Until I figure it out, suede with CrOx it is.

Have we already recommended this ?
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ing-video.html

Unless your strop has hardened or has particles embedded in it, then it's a good strop. It is very likely that you need to adjust your technique until you start seeing improved edges with your stropping. When it's going right, you will see edge improvement within only a dozen or so passes. Be patient - you'll get there. And then you'll be amazed at the difference in your shaves!

Originally Posted by Bang0Bang00

Are leather strops a sham?

No, I would never dry a car with one. (I hope nobody else used that joke already!)

Nothing beats a proper leather strop for shaving. The demands are far higher on the edge (in terms of fineness, etc) than they are on knives, and the edge is much more acute and delicate.

Originally Posted by Bang0Bang00

Most likely, my technique sucks.

I will continue to experiment.

Until I figure it out, suede with CrOx it is.

I have been at this for maybe 3 years and feel I am still improving my stropping technique. I think, for me at least, keeping the strop taut and really focusing on no pressure on the edge seem to be very helpful.

As above, look at AF Davis' videos. He has just a great, smooth style. I spend a good deal of time watching and re-watching those videos and trying to emulate his 'finger flip' method. I think i was using way too much pressure for quite a while.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Have we already recommended this ?
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ing-video.html

Great video, but I'm no stranger to the tutorials on youtube demonstrating this technique.
Kinda funny, I use the almost identical strop and technique at about 1/100th the speed and grace of AFDavis11. It looks like he is pressing slightly lighter then I am, but not by much. Like I said, I'll experiment. Thanks for the share!

Keep in mind I got 6-months out of my edge when all I had was a hanging strop before I got sucked into the rabbit hole of honing a fresh edge. It's not my ignorace (entirely) that's causing this conundrum for me, it this: (copy and pasted from "the science of sharp" comments here: https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-stropping-do/

"scienceofsharp says:
May 16, 2017 at 8:55 am

Using my definition of “sharp” you are correct, stopping does not sharpen. What stropping does is improve keenness through micro-convexity."

also from the same page

"scienceofsharp says:
September 8, 2015 at 8:58 am

I recommend that people experiment for themselves using the information here as a starting point and also to help understand their observations.

That said, I personally only use the linen component for cleaning the blade after shaving with 4 or 5 very short, light strokes. I typically use linen or denim with abrasive as part of my honing routine, however."

Maybe it's placebo, but I'm thinking the feeling I'm experiencing is the fresh cut edge off the CrOx vs. the micro convexed stopped edge.

To me, it just feels pretty sharp off the leather, but SUPER sharp off the CrOx.

And for everyone that keeps telling me that knives have nothing to do with straight razors, I literally shaved off my 4.5" fixed blade knife using the exact approach/technique linked below. 400-grit to CrOx to shave. Yes, I spent a little time on the CrOx suede and it felt as good or slightly better than my straight razor off the strop.

https://youtu.be/jKMFPpNxIbM?list=PL...RFIOaN3b-9UFn7

And I'm not even going to list all the videos on youtube with people shaving off all kinds of kitchen and utility knives. Yes the video above was arm hair, but there are many other examples of people using their face and non-straight razors to shave. It can be done.

Metal is still metal, physics is still physics, foil edges are foil edges, none of these perclude one or the other type of blade.

Different inteded use cases? Yes. Different designs? Yes. Different physics? I don't think so.

Disclaimer:
This last comment isn't directed at any individual. I am challenging the idea itself, mainly because I hear it so often and it just doesn't sit right with me. I have as much passion for a sharp and keen edge on a knife as I do a straight razor. I don't buy the concept that these two things live in separate universes with different physics. And that, in a nutshell, is the point of the topic of this thread.

That and I'm trying to sell sham-wow rags.

Originally Posted by Bang0Bang00

And I'm not even going to list all the videos on youtube with people shaving off all kinds of kitchen and utility knives. Yes the video above was arm hair, but there are many other examples of people using their face and non-straight razors to shave. It can be done.

Disclaimer:
This last comment isn't directed at any individual. I am challenging the idea itself, mainly because I hear it so often and it just doesn't sit right with me. I have as much passion for a sharp and keen edge on a knife as I do a straight razor. I don't buy the concept that these two things live in separate universes with different physics. And that, in a nutshell, is the point of the topic of this thread.

I can remember a very well known smith on youtube shaving with a straight he honed in a very specific way, no names.
I can also remember some blood involved so I'd say he didn't quite have a handle on the smooth side of things regardless of his expertise.
If your knives & straights are all shaving the same I'd respectfully suggest you have a bit to learn yet or need a better straight.

As for your disclaimer, a comfortable razor edge versus a simply sharp edge are in a different universe. The shave test will prove that.
Can you achieve that with a convexed knife edge ? Sure. Is that edge easy to maintain for the average user ? Nuhh-Uhh.

100% agree with that. you can shave with a peined scythe edge if you'd like, but it's not the same as a razor (albeit maybe closer than a blunt knife).

You can also cut yourself easily on a sharp 90 degree edge, and even sever hair with it. But it doesn't mean it's like a razor. A razor is like a razor, and caring for a razor is like caring for a razor, or we wouldn't have them - centuries of incremental improvement by extremely competitive professionals would've given us "shaving with knives" and a respective routine of care.

I don't think good stropping microconvexes the same way knife people think of microconvexing a bevel to push the failure point further up the bevel. It removes the foil and burnishes the metal to some extent. If some gets rounded a little, so be it, but it is not an intentional honing of an edge into a curve, and the metal that's there behaves far differently at 17 degrees than it would at 30.

Competent razor care involves specificity, familiarity, feel and experience. You can get more of some of those faster than some other people, but anyone who believes you can deviate significantly and get the same results hasn't been deviating long enough to realize that they're not getting the same results.