Thread: Loom Strops/Slack

Originally Posted by gugi

Have you had to modify the expectations for the feedback you're looking for depending on the strop?

Gugi,

No, not really. I have a TM hanging strop and Tony Miller also made me a customized 3inch wide paddle with balsa on the opposing side. There are only a few of these in the world as it just didn't take off very well. He created this paddle at my request.

Its been a long time since I've used another strop but when I used the TM strop which was hard and not very pliant I found that it did a great job of improving the edge and required no feedback evaluation at all. For reasons I can't explain though, the strop was almost impossible to hold flat. But, again, it created a great edge effortlessly. The TM strop I used seemed to do all its stropping action on the hard surface. The Dovo seems to use its depth to strop the razor. The Dovo is almost porous. The TM hard, like a board. So, to explain a little better, the Dovo seems to stretch out and creates draw from the leathers nap, while the TM uses the hard surface.

At the RazorCon 09, I found the SRD strops to be more closely related to the soft Dovo style, but it had all the same feedback potential.

I think, as they say, a strop either has draw or it doesn't.

I don't think I have enough experience with a variety of strops to answer your question effectively.

Thanks Alan for your explanation of your stropping habits. I've tried the more is better now I will fool around with some of the less is more in stropping and see what results I can get. It is interesting to experiment with different techniques.

Alan I think this is going to be a great thread if you stick with it

The tells of draw you mention are Crazy to me(you said it first). I am looking forward to the next get -together in Oklahoma so i can get those guys to show me what Draw is. Most of the time I hear it being a certain quality of a given strop, leather, or conditioner.

Your strop is constant per those qualities listed above, but what you are talking about is a function of edge condition. I must say that is far above any technique I have ever read.

Or myself thought possible. Heck I still dont know exactly what draw is- i heard it described. I'm not sure where to start trying to pick up on the tells you're using.

Now I once ground some charcoal and rubbed that in, and have coated my strap with castile soap and burnished with a cotton rag and finger pressure- that certainly gave me a sense of draw in its usual definition of "draggy friction"

I have probed the effect of each of my hones by shaving sans strop from 1k up. Over my short time I have seen improvements; meaning I have been able to get sharper/smoother on a per stone basis from what I got the first time.

...probably enough of me talking.
cheers

I stropped few razors concentrating on the draw I get and slightly releasing the tension on the strop and the results were very good. I mean I don't think the edges got better than with my usual stropping, but got there with fewer laps. Of course, for me this is only preliminary result, I'll try different things over the next few weeks and probably months and see how it goes.
The strop was kanayama. I tried also the kangaroo strop from Jimbo, and as expected I couldn't notice changes in he draw. It's a very flexible strop and I always felt that it slightly wraps around the edge. I'll have to try that one in a different way.

Don't try it with a fresh edge. Use one off the hone for a bit. Yes, same result, fewer strokes.

Later, I think, you'll start to see that you can obtain the same results even after you've been off the hone for a bit.

Don't let it bother you if you go too far and blow an edge though. It takes a little practice to sense what you should be doing. Typically I use these as corrective measures.

For yesterdays shave I started with a dulling edge and used a firm hand (using pressure) and then backed off and used light pressure. I did quite a few passes, maybe 30, which for me is a lot. Then I honed the razor and used a few light passes with no pressure. So, in one shave I used a semi-dull razor with stropping pressure and then a release with light passes, and I used a fresh edge with light/taut standard honing. The results were both very similar.

I think the only real conclusion that others will consider is that to keep an edge going for a long time, taut and light can only go so far.

Its also nice to learn exactly how much pressure and deflection is too much. You'd be astounded at how much pressure I can use when stropping . . .

I gotta say I am more than somewhat confused here. Regardless of my being accustomed to finding myself in that condition, trying to sort through the different stropping media, tensions, strokes, compounds, etc, is daunting.

-AFDavis believes in none or a few, light strokes - and has commented that stropping on a hand held towel improved his edge.

-MParker is an advocate of many strokes on linen, then leather with tension requirements I can't recall.

-We have the high draw advocates and no draw afficianados; the linen likers, the cotton club, and the nifty newsprinters.

-And there are the hangers on, the looming large, and the bench blockers.

Now I pinch my hanging strops, linen, cotton, horse, and cow, between thumb and forefinger (we call that the Copenhagen tug), pull them tight, and strop away. Much of what I read, even asking if one of our experts would disclose the amount of pull he uses, could be interpreted that I'm compromising my razors' edges from such callous actions. As an aside here, it is interesting that I am able to shave with razors thusly so casually treated. I guess thats what makes it (what does Lynn say?) a sport, where even we back benchers get the opportunity to cavort and play.

That is a good point Bruce. It always happens in these threads as they start to pick up speed and we start to get to the bottom of what is optimal that we have someone chime in that suggests none of the discussion is important or relevant.

That is one of the surprising things that I find about a forum, which, last I checked was solely about discussion.

The problem I think is that you are getting good shaves but can only describe your actions as "copenhagen".

You are getting good shaves, but that doesn't mean that you can't get better shaves, nor that you can't extend out the life of your edge better. Additionally, many of the rest of us have trouble following the "Copenhagen" tension pattern.


Here is an interesting discussion on the failure of the Copenhagen accord, it may resemble their stropping ideas too:
http://www.onearth.org/node/1768

So, can you describe your Copenhagen tug and how you know it to be the best stropping method, since as you note that there are so many people enjoying a wildly abusive variety of processes and tools?

I think the only thing you find confusing is that you are following a thread designed to get to the root of the confusion . . .

Not sure if this is the method Bruce is referring to ...... but a pinch between cheek and gum and strop away. BTW, love the thread Alan, forces me to experiment with new ideas and keeps the doldrums away.

Jimmy,

I think he is referring to only using his index finger and thumb to hold the end of the strop, and then somehow holding it tight. Almost a complete contradiction in physics.

One of the important keys here, for me, and my confusion, is that I see all kinds of discussion about tightness and all kinds of varied deflection that go with it. I've seen many guys who say the strop is tight, but it isn't. Not even remotely tight.

It seems to be like asking guys how they drive, and they all say "better than average".

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Jimmy,

I think he is referring to only using his index finger and thumb to hold the end of the strop, and then somehow holding it tight. Almost a complete contradiction in physics.

One of the important keys here, for me, and my confusion, is that I see all kinds of discussion about tightness and all kinds of varied deflection that go with it. I've seen many guys who say the strop is tight, but it isn't. Not even remotely tight.

It seems to be like asking guys how they drive, and they all say "better than average".

Alan, I just did an advanced search but couldn't find the thread you started a year or so ago on gripping the strop. IIRC, the strop was held at a 90 degree angle between the index and middle finger with the thumb pulling in a manner that would keep it flat and enable the strop to be pulled taut easily. The index finger thumb mentioned above can lead to the strop cupping towards the end as evidenced by some of the vintage pieces I've picked up. That is why I came to appreciate your method or handles and D-rings.