Thread: Loom Strops/Slack

Jimmy,

You're right on; my strop grip is like taking a pinch of snuff, fondly remembered but given up about 15 years ago.

AFD,

I do grip a strop between the forefinger and thumb of my left hand, pull it taut, and strop with razor held in right hand. How much pull weight? I don't have a clue, but the strop deflects very little when I stroke the razor on it. Long ago I used to row and at least at that time there was little I couldn't move by giving it a tug. Now, not so much, but I can keep a strop taut.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Alan, I just did an advanced search but couldn't find the thread you started a year or so ago on gripping the strop. IIRC, the strop was held at a 90 degree angle between the index and middle finger with the thumb pulling in a manner that would keep it flat and enable the strop to be pulled taut easily. The index finger thumb mentioned above can lead to the strop cupping towards the end as evidenced by some of the vintage pieces I've picked up. That is why I came to appreciate your method or handles and D-rings.

Jimmy,

Yes, that is true. But that is based on the importance of keeping the strop flat and taut. This is a characteristic that is, slowly, very slowly, becoming less important. The more I learn about peoples actual stropping habits, as opposed to what they say they do, the more I understand how it actually works.

I think what we will eventually start to understand is that the amount of effort needed to maintain flatness is proportional to the stiffness of your strop.

I think we also may begin to understand that the amount of pressure applied is important because, depending on the strops stiffness, applying pressure creates deflection.

This is important for me, because most traditional documentation on the subject never discusses using a light touch and all hanging strops deflect when in use to some degree, although the user can not easily detect it.

Finally, I would also suspect that people who are doing a great job of maintaining a perfectly flat strop and using light pressure would then need to use a resulting increase in the number of strokes for the same effect.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Jimmy,

You're right on; my strop grip is like taking a pinch of snuff, fondly remembered but given up about 15 years ago.

AFD,

I do grip a strop between the forefinger and thumb of my left hand, pull it taut, and strop with razor held in right hand. How much pull weight? I don't have a clue, but the strop deflects very little when I stroke the razor on it. Long ago I used to row and at least at that time there was little I couldn't move by giving it a tug. Now, not so much, but I can keep a strop taut.

Bruce,

Thanx. The point I want to focus on though is that the strop does deflect. So, would you agree then, that despite your athletic rowing experience a taut/tight strop still deflects?

So telling people that a strop must be held taut, or that it shouldn't sag, is vastly different than giving people the erroneous impression that it should be kept flat?

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Jimmy,

Yes, that is true. But that is based on the importance of keeping the strop flat and taut. This is a characteristic that is, slowly, very slowly, becoming less important. The more I learn about peoples actual stropping habits, as opposed to what they say they do, the more I understand how it actually works.

I think what we will eventually start to understand is that the amount of effort needed to maintain flatness is proportional to the stiffness of your strop.

I think we also may begin to understand that the amount of pressure applied is important because, depending on the strops stiffness, applying pressure creates deflection.

This is important for me, because most traditional documentation on the subject never discussing using a light touch and all hanging strops deflect when in use to some degree, although the user can not easily detect it.

Finally, I would also suspect that people who are doing a great job of maintaining a perfectly flat strop and using light pressure would then need to use a resulting increase in the number of strokes for the same effect.

Regarding the stiffness of the strop. Having a dozen or more vintage strops I've been intrigued by the variance in stiffness. Not from age but these are excellent + or better and some were made thick and stiff while others are thinner and more pliant. I am more comfortable stropping on a softer strop. I find the stiffer strops require more careful stropping to avoid a mishap. Maybe it is a psychological thing but that is how I feel about it. It also seems to me that I get better results with a more pliant strop. That maybe psychological also.

Since I do try and maintain a perfectly flat and tight strop with light pressure maybe that explains why 50 and 50 works well for me. I have already started experimenting with some slack, varying pressure and less strokes. It will be interesting to see where that takes me.

I don't think its psychological at all. I think you are developing an understanding of the importance of proper deflection.

I think, we need to spend more time emphasizing how and where pressure should be applied when stropping and the role it plays in proper deflection.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm aware of the few historical references to a hanging strop being created for the use of full hollow razors, but I'm not sure if anyone else has had similar experiences as I have had. That a hanging strop can also be used to shape an edge sharp instead of using a hone.

Any thoughts?

IIRC I touched on this several years ago (Stropping is King). I didn't use the words "shape an edge sharp instead of using a hone," but I think the effect is the same. I think this is what allows for a razor to remain keen for upwards of a year, or longer, by using an untreated strop alone.

Yes, it's Scott right? I think this is exactly what keeps the razor going. I may be beginning to understand why you found it so difficult to explain what you were doing or to get others to understand it.

What I want to definitively define is: "What is the optimum stropping routine, and why?"

Also,

1) What effect does tautness have in relationship to downward pressure?

2) Why is stropping pressure usually described in documentation as "firm", yet we always push other words

3) Is deflection bad, such that a beginner would be better off stropping on a flat table? Or, if deflection is good, how should it be attained and what are its effective limits?

4) What is the purpose of an adjustable tension loom strop?

5) When I tighten a strop and increase draw am I doing something that is better?

I wonder, in reading the thoughts here if this might also add to the explaination why many new straight shaves get better results from heavier grind razors. Obviously the shaving aspects are well documented, but the heavier razors also would tend to create more deflection during stropping, it seems to me. I have an S Pearson's and Son near full wedge that has gotten more smooth and sharper every stropping since I moved from a very thick and stiff vintage strop to a more pliable TM . I can only assume with my roughly years worth of experience that there must be some sort of defelction going on making this hapen

Yes, that is a good point. Additionally, the development of hanging strops from paddle strops was said to be related to the move from wedges to full hollow razors.

But, that coorelation doesn't quite fit into my common logic understanding of what should be happening.

Why a full hollow would need a hanging strop is something I don't understand, with the exception, perhaps, of the ease of a hanging strops ability to deflect against the lighter weight of a full hollow razor. Or something about the geometry my little brain just can't figure out.

With a paddle strop you can use leather compression to achieve the same type of deflection, but did people back then know to use more pressure with a paddle, and do people do so today?

Just took two different full hollow Solingens that would not pass HHT and stropped light and fast with not quite as much tautness in the strop and after 60 or 70 round trips they were passing HHT along the length of the blade. I did one on linen and leather and another on an old HandAmerican that had a one rough side and the other smooth. Used the rough followed by the smooth with a very light touch on both.