A method for pressing horn

[Oldnick]

Having read everything I could on the internet and other sources on the old methods of pressing horn, I finally, after much experimentation, have gotten to where I can at least produce a reasonable facsimile of the older work. Making the horn pliable can be achieved by boiling, flaming, baking, and heat lamps, but each of those methods has serious drawbacks when trying to align a piece of hot horn to a cold die, and then press it. The solution is to heat the horn and the die together as a unit. More experimentation (read as failures) based on that concept, led me to making this fixture.


The top plate moves up and down freely, which allows for compression once the fixture is in the press. The wing nuts tighten the horn and die firmly together in the cold state. Keeping the horn and die aligned is very important, and high temperature tapes can be used to initially locate and fix the two until the top plate is affixed and tightened. Once tightened down, the unit can be handled without affecting the line-up, and that is a key feature. BTW this is heavy. If I had a better press, the weight could be lowered a bit.
I am still logging values for optimal temperatures and times, but my examples were made by heating the fixture to 450 degrees for about 45 minutes. The time is to make sure that the fixture and contents are all at temperature. I use the kitchen oven, and no, it doesn’t smell. It’s ready when a toothpick inserted into the middle comes out clean…..oh, wait a minute, that’s a cake, never mind.

I don’t have the perfect press, but I have an old arbor press fitted with a 12 ton jack. That it has a single point ram is not the best configuration, but I can get it to work by pressing different areas. The wing nuts on the fixture can be tightened once compression loosens them, so I can then move it around. A good press would be a heavy duty rectangle of steel with two jacks mounted side by side. 6 ton jacks would probably work. There is lots of experimentation and designing left for the reader to explore. I have had areas end up not being deep enough, and you can realign, reheat and repress.


Once the horn has been pressed, the fixture is left under pressure until cool. You can speed that up with fans and laying aluminum bars on the fixture to act as heat sinks.

There is much to say about the dies, and the artwork for the dies, but to keep this from being overly long I’ll answer questions about that as they are asked. In short, I’m using photo etched magnesium alloy dies obtained from Owosso Engraving Company. I can’t say enough good things about them. The dies generally cost around $50 for the 2-up size. They can even make hand engraved dies that could emulate the finely detailed work of the past, but they would be very expensive. The art used for making the dies needs to be black and white vector based artwork. I have been asking for a 3/32” depth, but may move back to 1/16”. Whether something is right reading or wrong reading is also very important. I made a mistake on the greyhound die. I had just flipped it around to make the second image. I should have mirrored it. The greyhound is upside down on the read side of the razor @@##@#. The correct die is in the mail. Who knew a dog could be right or wrong reading?

Blank dies can also be made that slightly impress the back of the horn over the design area on the other side of the horn. These can be made from thin sheet metal, or you could order an etched one. Even a layer of thin tape will make an impression. A random pattern of bits and pieces could be pressed into and all over a whole piece of horn, and not require a die. There is very much to play with. Just remember that what is etched into the die will be raised on the horn. Get a good pair of oven mitts.

[RezDog]

you Have put a lot into this. I am impressed with the work and the results. Thanks for sharing.

[gssixgun]

I don't Press Horn per se

I only use a press, to Straighten it and relieve the tendency to twist

I have found that 375° and Hot Oil (Think French Fry machine) works best for me and it keeps the horn from drying out in the oven



That might give you some ideas


Really love what ou have done to revive an old art form

[tintin]

That's great! thank you for sharing (and for your hard work). I'm wondering though what would be a practical way to do "one offs"? I'm thinking also that doing one scale at a time would allow less pressure if one doesn't have a hydrollic press.

What sort of press was used in the old days? Would C-clamps do the job?

[Oldnick]

That's great! thank you for sharing (and for your hard work). I'm wondering though what would be a practical way to do "one offs"? I'm thinking also that doing one scale at a time would allow less pressure if one doesn't have a hydrollic press.

What sort of press was used in the old days? Would C-clamps do the job?

Yes, I have a strong graphic arts background. You're on your own, and please experiment and report back. My first experiments were with boiled horn and a vise. If you have a big vice, it will work, but the fixture is the key as far as alignment and ease of use is concerned. A gang cluster of LARGE clamps should give results, but the pressure is great, so you will really need to crank down with extensions on the handles. Some of the earliest pressed horn was probably executed using screw based clamping. You can find a really inexpensive bearing press on Craigslist or at a pawnshop. Mine was remaindered at an auction. One offs is how I started.

[Oldnick]

I don't Press Horn per se

I only use a press, to Straighten it and relieve the tendency to twist

I have found that 375° and Hot Oil (Think French Fry machine) works best for me and it keeps the horn from drying out in the oven



That might give you some ideas


Really love what ou have done to revive an old art form

I have boiled the horn in Neatsfoot, and was amazed to watch micro bubbles escape the horn as the remaining moisture was replaced with oil. It is also interesting that the horn is immediately not oily as it would be in a cold soak, and hard and super translucent. I have yet to attempt pressing a boiled in oil piece, but it's on the list of things to experiment with. I'll report my findings when I do. Reviving the "lost" art was my obsessive purpose. I am extremely happy to have gotten it this far, and there are still doors to open.

[JP5]

Thanks for answering our questions. Im glad you got pictures of the work in progress. The scales you've made made look great and your still refining the process.
Just to clarify, I wasn't making any suggestions about chemicals. I was just curious about how it was done originally.
Seems like one of the biggest hurdles (for guys like me) would be the actual designing of the tooling, knowing who could make it, etc.
It would be amazing to see what some of you guys with design/engineering/machinist/forging experience could create if you were able to collaborate on a project together.
I always imagined them using an extremely hot press to make scales, so I'm not surprised you had to heat it up so much.
Didn't they originally use thinner more pliable cattle horn for scale making vs the thick blanks we buy now?

I don't remember reading about anyone boiling scales in neatsfoot oil instead of just soaking. Wish I could try that, especially if it makes the scales stronger.

Thanks for all the info!!

[Oldnick]

Thanks for answering our questions. Im glad you got pictures of the work in progress. The scales you've made made look great and your still refining the process.
Just to clarify, I wasn't making any suggestions about chemicals. I was just curious about how it was done originally.
Seems like one of the biggest hurdles (for guys like me) would be the actual designing of the tooling, knowing who could make it, etc.
It would be amazing to see what some of you guys with design/engineering/machinist/forging experience could create if you were able to collaborate on a project together.
I always imagined them using an extremely hot press to make scales, so I'm not surprised you had to heat it up so much.
Didn't they originally use thinner more pliable cattle horn for scale making vs the thick blanks we buy now?

I don't remember reading about anyone boiling scales in neatsfoot oil instead of just soaking. Wish I could try that, especially if it makes the scales stronger.

Thanks for all the info!!

I am hoping that others will refine the process and think of things that I haven't. There is a vast area of experimentation out there to try. One advantage the old guys had was that they had tons of horn to work with, and more importantly, screw up with. Delaminating off thinner pieces is another art, and band sawing requires blades with very thin kerfs that run very true. As far as other skills out there; someone with lost wax casting experience and equipment could make a very highly detailed, contoured cast brass die which could have a follow die for pressing old style contoured designs. Each day I think of new possibilities, and where there is a will, there is a way. I made the fixture with a drill press and a hand tap. Haven't done that in years.

For boiling horn, I use a $10 hot plate, an old frying pan, some tweezers and some 100% Neatsfoot. When I try a piece treated that way before heating and pressing, I'll surely report back. Should be interesting. One of the differences in oil boiling and water boiling is that oil doesn't make the horn revert to it's curved memory. Anther feature is that like the hot pressing, it's done as soon as it cools whereas water requires slow drying while clamped.

Keep cogitatin'

[gssixgun]

The late Neil Miller probably forgot more about the old processes than most of us know, he and I had a few discussions on here about Horn and Scale making

In fact, it was from one of those where I got the idea of using the hot oil, IIRC they were actually using Whale oil back then BUT you might take a look through some of Neil's old posts and see if there are more ideas for you in there. I know I gleaned quite a few i have used in the workshop over the years


https://straightrazorpalace.com/memb...il-miller.html

[Johntoad57]

Outstanding! Thank you for posting!