Thread: 2000 grit sandpaper scratches

Originally Posted by Genco_Glider

I mean a cloth wheel for a bench grinder (not the dremel wheel). Since I can't get the compounds to stay on the wheel, maybe it is the quality of the compounds. The compounds came in sticks that are hard and I have to shave off what I need, it comes off in flakes that I chop into a powder, but the powder won't dissolve in water...so how do I get the powder to stay on the wheel w/o flying off?

When you get into polishing on a wheel, it's a whole separate challenge and although not rocket science, proper and effective polishing requires adherence to guidelines, etc. I don't claim to be a polishing expert, I'm not. With the experience I have had, the information I've read and the polishing experts I have talked with I can give you a few bits of info that will help:

• You do NOT want to load your wheels with a lot of compound. A little goes a long way. If you load your wheel, you'll run the risk of glazing and causing too much friction. You may be thinking that you're not getting enough compound on your wheels when in reality, you may very well be applying the right amount.
  • Caswellplating.com has been a great resource for me and I buy my compounds from them. They even have a free polishing PDF here: http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffman.htm
    • This is taken right from their website regarding compounds:
      "Applying Compound
      
      LITTLE & OFTEN is the rule. Too much compound will reduce the effectiveness of the cutting action, because the surface will become TOO greasy and over lubricated. This can often be seen by the prescence of a black slick of compound that seems to reveal around the work piece. Apply compound to the wheel for approx 1 second. Any more is wasted."
• The free booklet will also teach you about the difference between "cutting" vs. "coloring" which is important.

Bottom line though, if you're using a wheel, Bill Ellis is correct in his DVD when he says blades and wheels are probably the most dangerous thing you can work with in our art form. I use cut resistant gloves I originally bought for filleting fish that are similar to these: http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st...=SearchResults
And I would caution anyone from operating a cloth wheel with blades from working without such gloves. Actually, right now I have been only working with one of my gloves because I can't find the other darn glove and even wearing only the one makes me nervous.

Chris L

I guess, bottom line if you're trying to load your wheels with enough compound that you can really see the compound on your wheels, that's too much.

I hope this helps.

Thanks! I see that I have to turn on the buffing wheel and hold the stick to it, thus letting the compound transfer that way...I'll reply with a post that says if the white and red compounds are enough to get out the scratch marks of 2000 grit sandpaper...(hope it is b/c compounds are a LOT cheaper than micro-mesh)

Originally Posted by Genco_Glider

Thanks! I see that I have to turn on the buffing wheel and hold the stick to it, thus letting the compound transfer that way...I'll reply with a post that says if the white and red compounds are enough to get out the scratch marks of 2000 grit sandpaper...(hope it is b/c compounds are a LOT cheaper than micro-mesh)

Please do report your findings. We'll all appreciate the info. It's good practice to let your wheel "warm up" for maybe a minute after you first turn it on before you touch the compound stick into the wheel (you don't have to ream on it, just press with average pressure for a second or so. I usually reapply with one second bursts every 3-5 minutes on the wheel or when it seems like it needs it.

Also, I don't know what kind of grinder you have (if you say BALDOR you're going to make me very jealous) but if you don't have a grinder that spins at 1750 rpm or you don't have a variable speed grinder that allows you to slow it down to that rpm range, you'll REALLY REALLY have to work in short micro-bursts on a higher rpm grinder. Even at the 1750 rpm I can get my grinder down to, I only keep the razor in contact with the wheels for a few seconds at a time and still the thin blades heat up quickly. A higher rpm grinder really puts you in a precarious place to burn the steel and ruin the temper. If you ruin the temper, then just use your blade for a letter opener....it's toast.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Genco_Glider

Thanks! I see that I have to turn on the buffing wheel and hold the stick to it, thus letting the compound transfer that way...I'll reply with a post that says if the white and red compounds are enough to get out the scratch marks of 2000 grit sandpaper...(hope it is b/c compounds are a LOT cheaper than micro-mesh)

Yeah please let us know. I've been thinking of getting some of that compound, in fact I was going to go tomorrow morning...there is a Harbor Freight Tools right around the corner from my house that I frequent quite often. Now, I think that I'll hold off until I see how your little adventure goes...

Thanks,
-Pary

Compound Report:

I wanted to see if the white and red compounds could remove the scratches left by 2000 grit sandpaper. The white is more coarse, so I used it first. It did a good job of removing any sign of the 2000 grit sandpaper on the bottom half of the razor (from the mid-point of the razor to the edge), but because of the hollow of the razor, the top half of the razr (the area of the razor just beneath the spine to the middle of the razor) didn't get as much contact/pressure/friction as the bottom half, so there is still some sign of the 2000 grit sandpaper in this area. I tried holding the razor vertically against the wheel, but I don't know how much it helped. Then I used the red rouge.

The final result of using a progression of sandpaper through 2000 grit and then white end red compound is that it left the razor very good, almost perfect, except the top half of the razor still has slightly visible signs of the 2000 grit sandpaper-which are only visible in right light at the right angle.

I think that maybe a tripoli compound might help with the imperfection just described, and I am pretty sure micro-mesh would solve it, but the razor is almost perfect, you wouldn't even notice unless you really inspected it, and I don't feel like getting all OCD about it at this time.

Originally Posted by Genco_Glider

... I don't feel like getting all OCD about it at this time.

This is the nature of metal polishing. It's either perfect or it's not.

Originally Posted by Chrisl

When you get into polishing on a wheel, it's a whole separate challenge and although not rocket science, proper and effective polishing requires adherence to guidelines, etc. I don't claim to be a polishing expert, I'm not. With the experience I have had, the information I've read and the polishing experts I have talked with I can give you a few bits of info that will help:

• You do NOT want to load your wheels with a lot of compound. A little goes a long way. If you load your wheel, you'll run the risk of glazing and causing too much friction. You may be thinking that you're not getting enough compound on your wheels when in reality, you may very well be applying the right amount.
  • Caswellplating.com has been a great resource for me and I buy my compounds from them. They even have a free polishing PDF here: http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffman.htm
    • This is taken right from their website regarding compounds:
      "Applying Compound
      
      LITTLE & OFTEN is the rule. Too much compound will reduce the effectiveness of the cutting action, because the surface will become TOO greasy and over lubricated. This can often be seen by the prescence of a black slick of compound that seems to reveal around the work piece. Apply compound to the wheel for approx 1 second. Any more is wasted."
• The free booklet will also teach you about the difference between "cutting" vs. "coloring" which is important.

Bottom line though, if you're using a wheel, Bill Ellis is correct in his DVD when he says blades and wheels are probably the most dangerous thing you can work with in our art form. I use cut resistant gloves I originally bought for filleting fish that are similar to these: http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st...=SearchResults
And I would caution anyone from operating a cloth wheel with blades from working without such gloves. Actually, right now I have been only working with one of my gloves because I can't find the other darn glove and even wearing only the one makes me nervous.

Chris L

I guess, bottom line if you're trying to load your wheels with enough compound that you can really see the compound on your wheels, that's too much.

I hope this helps.

+1. If you see your wheel turn color, you have used way too much.
Gloves and eye protection! I also slow up my motor when I'm finishing the blade. It sure makes for nice looking finishes.

Originally Posted by Genco_Glider

Thanks! I see that I have to turn on the buffing wheel and hold the stick to it, thus letting the compound transfer that way

Yes that's the way to do it.

There are different styles of wheel, too. The most common ones I see are stitched tightly together and almost like felt, they're so dense. I would stay away from these with a delicate razor. They're more for car bumpers (heh) or something heavier than a razor anyway.

Look for the 'loosest' wheel you can find. My favorite for the delicate work looks like fifty round sheets of cloth that are only stitched near the center. It should deform easily and even at full speed you should be able to poke the wheel with a knuckle and it doesn't burn or hurt.

As you know, they're just like strops - once you put compound on a wheel you have to stick with that compound or coarser, you can't go finer. So get a couple different wheels.

A fast way to clean a packed-up wheel is to use one of the thick disposable contractor blades (the kind that go in a utility knife). Swipe it over the running wheel and you should get loads of cotton fluff and rouge flying off the wheel, but it freshens it right up.

Originally Posted by johnny_angel

My favorite for the delicate work looks like fifty round sheets of cloth that are only stitched near the center.

If the wheels you describe are properly dressed, they surface transforms into an amazingly fluffy cotton cloud turning it into a true buffing wonder. I have a wheel dresser that's a two handled wood tool with a jagged metal plate fixed to it (like a multi-row jagged comb). You touch that to the new wheel and it turns the wheel into what it's supposed to be. Really cool.

Sisal wheels are recommended for the coarser compounds like Emery (Black). Instead of fabric, Sisal for those not yet in the know is like that beige colored rough twine you used to find on bales of hay. Sisal wheels are what I use for initial cleaning and with black compound, really helps with the more significant scratches.

Chris L