Thread: Anybody ever have Bertarelli hone a razor??

Originally Posted by Philadelph

If they sharpen razors with the same setup in the photo on their site it will not work well. It MAY ruin the razor if he isn't careful. I can almost guarantee all that.

The only thing that gives me some hope is that there is no mention of razors on that page. They said it's some "machine they put it through," which doesn't sound great, but at least it's not a grinding wheel!

Gotta admit now I'm at least curious what they'd say. Not to mention curious as to whether people around this shop have tried (and continue? quit?) straight shaving after using their products.

I doubt it would shave well without honing on a stone, a razor's edge needs a bevel for strength, and a bevel can only be set on a flat surface such as a stone.

If these guys use a wheel to sharpen (and let’s assume they have hi-grit wheels) … at best, the bevel will be concave and only marginally better than a wire edge (too thin and flexible to shave well).

If it were so easy to use a wheel to sharpen a razor, then why after 200 years don’t the major manufacturers simply sharpen on a wheel?… indeed, they all used wheels to grind razor blanks.

But you never know, these guys may have some modern machine that does, so send then a razor and lets see what they can do.

You guys are talking about grinding wheels though, right?

What if they are talking about the machine that TI uses to sharpen razors. It spins horizontally and the blade is ground on the flat side of the wheel, not on the arch itself.

There's a video out on youtube that I can't get to because I'm at work and it's blocked by the firewall.....

While it's possible to use power tools to sharpen straight razors, these must be custom built machines and I doubt their sharpening service has them. You'll probably end up with a rough finish and possible chips.

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

You guys are talking about grinding wheels though, right?

What if they are talking about the machine that TI uses to sharpen razors. It spins horizontally and the blade is ground on the flat side of the wheel, not on the arch itself.

There's a video out on youtube that I can't get to because I'm at work and it's blocked by the firewall.....

Yes TI uses the flat side of a wheel (like the ones used to sharpen clipper blades)… They first lay the blade flat (and I believe sometimes with the spine raised) with the wheel moving away from the edge. This creates a “burr” on the edge. They then flip the razor so the wheel is moving against the edge and this will “sheer” and remove the burr.
From what I understand this creates a “factory bevel” that makes honing on a stone much faster (production environment), its like using tape on to protect the spine, to remove most of the steel on a course stone to form a bevel close to the final bevel (a bevel formed without tape).

I suppose if the right wheels are used (hi-grit) this could “hone” a razor as good as when done on a flat hone, however I would hope one would find a way to make the wheel rotate in both directions.

Bertarelli Cutlery is a forty year old cutlery company. My guess: they’re not using a grinder to hone anything. Their website even says, “We use a multi-step process developed specifically for professional cutlery that gives your knife an edge that's better than new.” That multi-step process is probably similar to the process used by every other cutlery company, say Dovo or Thiers-Issard.

Yes, they're cutlery companies too!

Bertarelli is probably hone using a power hone, like this Thiers-Issard craftsman is clearly using. This is similar to a flat lap used by lapidaries. A power hone need not be a custom-built machine either, although that particular one pictured may be.

By the way, I don’t think that is a “whetstone” in the picture. You don’t use the side of a stone wheel, only the face, because the pressure can cause a wheel to crack. Also, because you couldn’t dress the side of a wheel you’d lose the flat surface so essential here. Given the age of the Thiers-Issard shop, though, and the other methods they use, like heat treatment with molten lead, who knows?

Not only does Bertarelli probably have the right tool for the job, they probably know what they’re doing. You say they say they have done this before. Why would they lie? Honing a razor isn’t rocket science or magic, either. Anybody can do it, certainly a cutlery company specializing in sharpening everything from paper cutters to gas trimmers. But, to be sure, you’ll have to ask yourself. Or just try it. All the speculation in the world can’t compare to that.

I’m going to try this at home. I know some of you like being hunched over your hones, alone, until the wee hours of the morning putting a bevel on a blade. I’ve got better things to do and a power hone. My bet? I can put a perfect, mirror-polished bevel on a razor faster than you can shave with it. When I get that part of my shop unpacked, we’ll see. I’ve got a few razors sitting around, waiting. Maybe hand honing is a thing of the past. Sorry, Lynn!

About the whetstone, it looks like I could be wrong. Kevin and Jim showed me some cool whetstones from Japan that are made for mounting horizontally. Pretty cool.

Ok, the results are in!

Not only is the razor not sharp enough but they made my 6/8 genco (unrestored) into somewhere between a 5/8 and 4/8 at the tip and is visibly wider at the heel. The etching is now very uneven.

I did somewhat anticipate this so was not too upset. I still offered to pay for the service but they refused observing my disappointment. They asked what was wrong and I pointed out how the blade was uneven now and that they had removed over an 1/8th of inch from the width of the blade. (which is very obvious) They disagreed and couldn't see what I was talking about. (keep in mind they had twice previously assured me they know what they are doing and would not take off an 1/8 inch which I had specifically inquired about) They were actually d*%#s about it even though I was being very calm and nice having prepared myself for such results.

What really ****ed me off was that, even though I told them it was not a big deal and still offered to pay I heard them mocking me before I even left the store!!!

I think honing should be left to those here who know what they are actually doing!!

LESSON LEARNED!!

Originally Posted by flampen85

Ok, the results are in!

Not only is the razor not sharp enough but they made my 6/8 genco (unrestored) into somewhere between a 5/8 and 4/8 at the tip and is visibly wider at the heel. The etching is now very uneven.

I did somewhat anticipate this so was not too upset. I still offered to pay for the service but they refused observing my disappointment. They asked what was wrong and I pointed out how the blade was uneven now and that they had removed over an 1/8th of inch from the width of the blade. (which is very obvious) They disagreed and couldn't see what I was talking about. (keep in mind they had twice previously assured me they know what they are doing and would not take off an 1/8 inch which I had specifically inquired about) They were actually d*%#s about it even though I was being very calm and nice having prepared myself for such results.

What really ****ed me off was that, even though I told them it was not a big deal and still offered to pay I heard them mocking me before I even left the store!!!

I think honing should be left to those here who know what they are actually doing!!

LESSON LEARNED!!

I think you should have pulled out a brush, soap, strop and ask who wanted a shave with it first.

Wow. Sorry i dint see this thread earlier. I could have warned you about Bertarellis. They do that to kitchen knives as well. Ive seen people who have had knives sharpened there and it was a bad job. I had a chef tell us they can turn a chefs knife into a paring knife if you keep using them. I used to take my knives to a place downtown to get them sharpened till one day a different guy did them and @#$%^ em up. I quickly learned to hone my own knives after that and now am more satisfied. Hopefully I can master honing a razor one day