Thread: Katana-Kagi (swordsmith) asking for input

Originally Posted by Bruno

A minor point here: If a razor is kept sharp and free from damage, honing (or rather touching up) will remove only tiny amounts of metal. Regardless of the way you hone, any kamisori has enough steel to it that it could be used daily for hundreds of years without getting through the hagane.

It's not like a plane blade where you remove measurable quantities of metal.

Bruno, the Japanese tool smiths will talk about their blades in terms of generations, as in handed down to extended family. The amount of good edge steel will last 1-2-3 generations of use. The smiths did not think of short term planned obsolescence.

There is not only a quality of manufacture, but a quality of sharpening/polish and a quality of use. DT Suzuki, in one of his stories, referred to a butcher who never sharpened his knife, because his Zen mind approach to cutting was that the blade did not wear. It's not enough to focus on only one facet of Japanese things.

True.
One thing in which the Japanese generally out-do is us their general care for things.
Perhaps not us as straight razor enthusiasts because we look upon razors as things that can last centuries. But as a society in general, we're throw-away minded.

Hi Dan,
Have just come to this thread.
The received wisdom for included bevel angle for weatern straights is about 16 - 25 degrees, they all shave.
To my taste though I prefer 16 / 17 degrees as I prefer a well whet edge to cruise through stubble even ATG.
Have shaved with a blade I made that was 20 degrees and didn't like it, the result was fine but shave felt like it was an axe, very forgiving though.
I know jack about Japanese straights so this may not be relevant due to different geometry and softer steel outer construction.
Just my experience, hope this helps?
Joe

Originally Posted by Deckard

Hi Dan,
Have just come to this thread.
The received wisdom for included bevel angle for weatern straights is about 16 - 25 degrees, they all shave.
To my taste though I prefer 16 / 17 degrees as I prefer a well whet edge to cruise through stubble even ATG.
Have shaved with a blade I made that was 20 degrees and didn't like it, the result was fine but shave felt like it was an axe, very forgiving though.
I know jack about Japanese straights so this may not be relevant due to different geometry and softer steel outer construction.
Just my experience, hope this helps?
Joe

Thanks for the info Joe. Being almost totally in the dark about straight razor shaving, this is the kind of basic knowledge I need to even have a place to start.
It's funny. I have kinda been looking at straight razors but to be honest the western straights don't really speak to me. Don't get me wrong-I can appreciate the beauty of them and some of the great work being done with customs and restorations. But the design and use just doesn't make sense to me-if that makes sense.

I don't remember where I first saw a Japanese straight but it immediately appealed to me and made sense.

Making sense is a difficult idea to explain. For me it means all the processes involved fall into place in a line. Now it doesn't mean all the details are worked out, but all the major steps from material to shave form a logical progression in my mind.

There is lot of fill in the blanks of course and input such as yours and the other generous folks here makes it happen.

Dan

OK,

Donovan was kind enough to hone up his Kamisori and send to me. I have been measuring it, studying it and shaving with it. (First straight razor shave ever-Pretty cool )

I also bought an old one on Ebay.

After looking at them both closely the handle is not in line with the blade. There is a slight bend to it.
My question to you guys with Kamisori-are they all like that? And if so-why?

I noticed in pictures that Maestro Livi makes his handle in line with the blade.

Also, if anybody is interested in sending me an Iwasaki for me to study they would get one of my blades back with the Iwasaki to test and keep.

if you mean the handle arches that is artifact from the forging process and is not a case for all kamisori. I would say it will depend on the level of finish or attention to detail.

Originally Posted by mainaman

if you mean the handle arches that is artifact from the forging process and is not a case for all kamisori. I would say it will depend on the level of finish or attention to detail.

Hmmmm
Let me be more specific and see if we are on the same page.

If you sight along the top of the spine with the ura to the right the handle bends to the left.
Here is a picture of the old one lying on the omote. You can see the curve to it. Both the one Donovan sent me and this one show the same curve.


I can't see someone who had the skill to forge weld and then forge this out would leave it curved if it was meant to be straight.

Just my thought.

Maybe it happens that the the only two kamisori I have ever held happened to be bent.

Or maybe there is a reason for it

Dan

i have a nihon kamisori that i will hone up and send to you to examine and use .......... if you want.....


pm me with your address if you are interested....

Originally Posted by Danocon

Hmmmm
Let me be more specific and see if we are on the same page.

If you sight along the top of the spine with the ura to the right the handle bends to the left.
Here is a picture of the old one lying on the omote. You can see the curve to it. Both the one Donovan sent me and this one show the same curve.


I can't see someone who had the skill to forge weld and then forge this out would leave it curved if it was meant to be straight.

Just my thought.

Maybe it happens that the the only two kamisori I have ever held happened to be bent.

Or maybe there is a reason for it

Dan

I do not think it is intentional like that.
I have 2 to hone right now and one has straight handle, the other one has handle that is not so straight.
IMHO it is random.

Originally Posted by mainaman

I do not think it is intentional like that. IMHO it is random.

I would have to disagree with this statement.
I would say that it is more something that is up to the smith's discretion. Does it seriously affect a razors ability to shave? No. But it does allow for a more comfortable feel in hand and slightly changes your hand placement during the shave. Making a quick mock up of a straight tang vs bent one i end up having less of a bend in my wrist with the bent tang.