Thread: Paper testing razors

Thanks for posting the pics. I'm not sure you aren't getting some damage there. The photos show a darker spot near the edge where you are cutting the paper even after the single cut. Doing the math and using the scale from the electron microscope photo, his damage looked to be about 3-4 microns from top to bottom - on your 500x scope that would work out to ballpark .059" - .078" in your image if it was the same size as his. That dark spot at the edge sure looks pretty close to that, even in the first photo of the single paper cut. You may well just be repairing the edge enough by stropping post-paper-cutting to get a shaveable edge. I think it's not possible to say for sure at that level of magnification though.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Thanks for posting the pics. I'm not sure you aren't getting some damage there. The photos show a darker spot near the edge where you are cutting the paper even after the single cut. Doing the math and using the scale from the electron microscope photo, his damage looked to be about 3-4 microns from top to bottom - on your 500x scope that would work out to ballpark .059" - .078" in your image if it was the same size as his. That dark spot at the edge sure looks pretty close to that, even in the first photo of the single paper cut. You may well just be repairing the edge enough by stropping post-paper-cutting to get a shaveable edge. I think it's not possible to say for sure at that level of magnification though.

Thank you for your observation. I am not sure I see the spot you mention but I do see a spot slightly below the edge, very near the paint. It doesn't seem to reach the edge? The red paint was to help me get the same spot, but as it wore away actually caused me to move the razor to the right. If you notice in the first pic after a cut, there at two small x's caused by glare, in the V left when paint was lost. Those x's can be followed thru the pics to better judge a single spot from one pic to the next. I expect if any stropping had been done Changed them to some degree. You may also notice that the pic from after the shave seems a little dull. I can only assume my very light wiping did not remove all soap film, but by the last edge pic, after 5 more cuts, the entire bevel seems much cleaner.

You will notice I did not attempt to evaluate the pics before. Figured I would leave that to viewers. But, I thought I did mention, and now realize I did not, NO stropping was done anywhere in this process. The shave after 5 cuts was delightful, but I could tell at the end of the last 5 cuts, another shave would not fair as well without stropping.
Thanks, Cheers

Yeah, as I noted, it's pretty tough to tell at this magnification level. The reflection of the edge near the apex looks different to me from the first shave ready shot and the post-paper shots afterward. And that's about all we have to judge the damage at that scale. Now whether that's actually edge damage or just lighting I can't say - that's why I mentioned lighting previously. Regardless, if you got a shave after the paper cutting without stropping the damage isn't catastrophic. If you'd say you couldn't do more than that little bit of shaving though without stropping, there definitely was some damage done. I would still recommend folks should be hesitant to try that after bevel set, lol.

Would say that the edge looks pretty impressive considering 500x, straight shiny line

The best way to check for edge damage at this magnification would probably be to use dark field illumination - an easy way is to use an external light source that's fairly linear like an LED flashlight with a focused beam and shine it almost directly at the edge. Then tweak the angle and position of the flashlight until you get the reflection of the very apex lit up but most of the rest of the bevel and razor fairly dark.

Out of curiosity what was your progression on this razor also bigeasy?

Originally Posted by eKretz

Yeah, as I noted, it's pretty tough to tell at this magnification level. The reflection of the edge near the apex looks different to me from the first shave ready shot and the post-paper shots afterward. And that's about all we have to judge the damage at that scale. Now whether that's actually edge damage or just lighting I can't say - that's why I mentioned lighting previously. Regardless, if you got a shave after the paper cutting without stropping the damage isn't catastrophic. If you'd say you couldn't do more than that little bit of shaving though without stropping, there definitely was some damage done. I would still recommend folks should be hesitant to try that after bevel set, lol.

Yes, interpretations of high magnification pictures can run the gamut. A change in lighting can change the entire appearance. For instance, in Mr Onimaru5's 200x pictures on page 3, show more coarseness of the bevel, than the 5K pics you mention. My 500x pics show larger peaks and valleys than his. Yet one would think that the 5K pics would show extreme peaks and valleys, and yet for all practical purposes, there are none. My judgment of that pic tells me the edge was finished way beyond what any of us would ever do. I traced the source of the pic. It is a free blog. I could not find any reference to the 'scientist' making the interpretations. I have only tried 'bond' paper a couple of times because it is much heavier than notepad paper and dulls much quicker. There are thinner papers than notepad, but most, if produced for writing, would have a hard finish applied.

I agree that no one should jump right into this and think it can be done with a few razors worth of experience. With experience, they might venture beyond the bevel set, and my statements and pics only demonstrate what is possible. As mentioned before, there were potholes along the way There were a few rolled edges. Very few, not to the degree shown in the 5kx pics, to my knowledge, and nothing more than could be corrected with 20 laps at 8K.

Originally Posted by eKretz

The best way to check for edge damage at this magnification would probably be to use dark field illumination - an easy way is to use an external light source that's fairly linear like an LED flashlight with a focused beam and shine it almost directly at the edge. Then tweak the angle and position of the flashlight until you get the reflection of the very apex lit up but most of the rest of the bevel and razor fairly dark.

Out of curiosity what was your progression on this razor also bigeasy?

I have never tried your suggestion but can see how it might make edge damage more obvious. I believe most of the edge is visible in most of the pics, but some may not realize we are talking about that last tiny bit.

Finished on the Roccia stone that the original thread was about. I do not hone for full polish on the bevel, my focus is on the edge. It was stropped on 'firehose' type cloth, about 40-50 laps, relatively fast. One cut to ensure my satisfaction that I had reached my goal.

Hi res photos never were something I paid much attention to. As I told Sham, above 40x my honing goes to hell. For me it is how smooth the razor feels on my face, and how efficiently it slices the whiskers. The TNT, TPT, and finally, my own personal version of HHT tell me all I need in terms of tests.

Perhaps cutting paper as an alternative won't do any harm, but I cannot imagine it will do the edge any good.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Perhaps cutting paper as an alternative won't do any harm, but I cannot imagine it will do the edge any good.

Sorry, Jimmy, but that is true for any test.

The tests are all for evaluation only, not for improvement. IF the paper does not harm the edge, then well, whatever, I guess.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Hi res photos never were something I paid much attention to. As I told Sham, above 40x my honing goes to hell. For me it is how smooth the razor feels on my face, and how efficiently it slices the whiskers. The TNT, TPT, and finally, my own personal version of HHT tell me all I need in terms of tests.

Perhaps cutting paper as an alternative won't do any harm, but I cannot imagine it will do the edge any good.

Agree completely. Anyone who has an established routine and gets good results would not be interested in spending a lot of time learning something new. I can't off hand think of any test that would actually help the edge. I can imagine the damage could be done with HHT, but not a likely or as severe as possible with the paper. I can also imagine blood dripping from a first timers attempt at tpt.
Cheers