Thread: Paper testing razors

Originally Posted by Slurryer

No special claims or abilities on my part. Only observations that I'm trying to connect with experiences. I mentioned HHT here because of an observation that was different after honing on this stone. Being new to a lot of this, I don't really know whither those observations matter at all. The comments I'm getting back, positive and negative are helping me to validate whither I should tie that observation with this last shave experience. You're fairly convinced that I should throw any HHT observation out with the toilet water. Ask me about HHT in a year, I may join you in that opinion. But for now I'm seeing some repeatable patterns that have some value. Not valuable enough to say a razor is shave ready, but enough to say that the edge is not getting more dull, or the edge is getting more sharp. For a newbie, that's valuable. For someone with more experience, MMV. Viva La Razor!

EDIT
Just thinking how funny that would be.
Slurry AKA
The Blade Whisperer

Ah, we are getting some good conversation going. I agree with most here. As for HHT, why is it professed so much by the "Gurus" if it is so lacking. I agree that it is necessary to determine early on that there are no imperfections in the edge. I try to do this before leaving 1K. I do not agree that it is necessary to go to 8K on synthetics. I have used the La Roccia a good bit. I could not say with any certainty what grit it is, and really don't care. It polishes fast with the slurry, even only honing to 4 k prior to that, and finishes faster and keener, and smoother, than my c12K. For me. I have not been honing razors for 40 years, but have been honing that long. I started razors with all natural stones. Wasn't easy, and I don't recommend it, but was a learning situation anyway. Think most of us go on learning for a long while. At the risk of getting blasted, I cut paper to test a razor. From 600 grit diamond, all of the way thru slurry and clear water. The cuts should get quieter and smoother. Each test tests the edge for consistence from heel to toe. The only real test is on your face, but cutting paper gets me closer than anything else I have tried prior to the shave. When the razor seems to float thru the paper, with barely a ""Whisper"", it is very very close. But this is not just keenness, it is smooth. A 12K diamond hone will make noticeably more noise. Unlike hair, it is possible to buy notepads that are completely consistent from first sheet to last, and my thin hair doesn't get thinner, at least not because I keep pulling it out. Oh, I use the edge of the long side of the slurry stone, with a good bit of pressure. It is necessary to be careful when first using the slurry that no larger grits are making little tick noises. It is good to throw cautions in at times, like 'It can't be learned with a 5 minute youtube' :-)
But looks like we are all learning a little from each other. That is what the whole forum is about isn't it?
Cheers!

Actually I don’t write this, to get you to change your thinking. You have already drunk the Kool Aid… and want more, you believe you can hear the difference.

I write it for other who will read it and they will believe, it is possible and as true, if not challenged.

There are those that claim they can tell the difference in keenness of a blade by the ease in which it cuts a single hair, and then assign it a number and maybe they can. But I have never heard anyone claim they can do so by the sound it makes.
At some point, someone has to call Bolshevik!

My point is even if you could or anyone can tell the difference, what does that tell you about the shave potential of the edge?
Here’s an idea, shave with the razor… and stop promoting a myth.

They say as many as 10 percent of folks believe, Elvis is still alive…

I know, I know, this may come as a shock to some of you… sorry.

Originally Posted by Slurryer

Would like to see. Do you have a link?

Yes if I can figure out how to correctly link it from you tube .grrr electric technology is not my friend it appears .

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Actually I don’t write this, to get you to change your thinking. You have already drunk the Kool Aid… and want more, you believe you can hear the difference.

I write it for other who will read it and they will believe, it is possible and as true, if not challenged.

There are those that claim they can tell the difference in keenness of a blade by the ease in which it cuts a single hair, and then assign it a number and maybe they can. But I have never heard anyone claim they can do so by the sound it makes.
At some point, someone has to call Bolshevik!

My point is even if you could or anyone can tell the difference, what does that tell you about the shave potential of the edge?
Here’s an idea, shave with the razor… and stop promoting a myth.

They say as many as 10 percent of folks believe, Elvis is still alive…

I know, I know, this may come as a shock to some of you… sorry.

Bolshevik! Where? I don't see anyone pushing their method other than you. So maybe you can tell me why my duller razor not only pulls a little but makes noticeably more noise? I hone and test shave over 300 different razors a year. I think I would know, as would those shaving with those razors, if my methods did not work! I have no doubt that your methods work for you, and I agree that an early, fine, visual inspection is paramount to a successful result. But why is it that many shavers judge by the Sound and feel of the razor on the strop to know when the razor is ready?

If you didn't come here to see what people have to say about this stone, and/or their honing methods, why are you here? Its amazing to me how people can be so negative about something they have never tried. It's clear to me that most of the posters here are at least getting fairly consistent and satisfactory results from the efforts. IMHO
Respectfully,

I do have one of these stones, the so called 12-15k and mine is not anywhere near 8K much less 12K.

We see these claims all the time, with ”new stones”. It is just another slate. Yes they can produce a shaveable edge, as I said, in capable hands, the best, keenest, most comfortable edge…no.

The BS is that anyone can tell the difference in the sound a razor makes cutting a single hair, as to a razor’s keenness. I have never heard anyone make this claim.

I don’t think you are making this claim and we are not talking about stropping, and was not even talking about you or your edges.

I assumed the OP was fairly new to honing as he said he only had experience with Norton hones and took 2 hours to lap a soft slate hone on 320 W&D.

So if he has an 8k Norton, using this stone, he is probably going backwards in progression.

As to this stone my “12-15K” is a medium grit slate, to promote it as anything else or at a given grit, much less 12-15K, is false.

[QUOTE=Euclid440;1451089]I do have one of these stones, the so called 12-15k and mine is not anywhere near 8K much less 12K.,,,,,,,,,,

QUOTE]

"I do have one of these stones, the so called 12-15k and mine is not anywhere near 8K much less 12K."

I can't imagine why anyone with a 20K Japanese rock, or finishes on CrO pasted strop, or thinks "We see these claims all the time, with ”new stones”. It is just another slate. Yes they can produce a shaveable edge, as I said, in capable hands, the best, keenest, most comfortable edge…no." would purchase one of these? Maybe yours was mismarked, or maybe you could have just told us that you did not have the same results?

"The BS is that anyone can tell the difference in the sound a razor makes cutting a single hair, as to a razor’s keenness. I have never heard anyone make this claim."
So maybe it was an anomaly? Maybe your hearing is not as acute? Maybe his angle was a little different? Maybe you don't listen to the noise of your razor on the hone? None a good reason to blast the guy, or anyone else here. You want to talk about BS?

"I don’t think you are making this claim and we are not talking about stropping, and was not even talking about you or your edges. "

I am one of the ones here getting excellent edges!

"I assumed the OP was fairly new to honing as he said he only had experience with Norton hones and took 2 hours to lap a soft slate hone on 320 W&D."

Yep, does seem a little anal. 600 grit diamond should have worked just fine(if he has one) in 15 min max.

"So if he has an 8k Norton, using this stone, he is probably going backwards in progression."

Kind of like going from 20K Japanese rock, to CrO pasted strop? As mentioned in your other posts?
You have added a small amount of positive here, but it is surrounded by negative. If you don't like the stone, think the poster makes it sound too easy, or just disagree with the whole direction here, why not just say that and be done with it?
Again, with all due respect.

Somebody, needs a nap…

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Somebody, needs a nap…

Or less coffee, Thanks.

Moving on, Honed and tested 4 last night. All finished on La Roccia, followed with cloth strop only. All but one tested fine first try. One needed about 15-20 more laps on cloth. I am seeming to find that the stone is self polishing and getting a little slower to finish. I have a friend in the UK who laps his Dragons Tonque slate stone, on 600 grit W/D, after every 4th or 5th razor, just to keep it cutting faster. Will try lapping this stone on 600 grit diamond before the next razor, to see if it speeds up, and still gives the fine finish.
Cheers,

Originally Posted by Euclid440

My point is even if you could or anyone can tell the difference, what does that tell you about the shave potential of the edge?
Here’s an idea, shave with the razor… and stop promoting a myth.

They say as many as 10 percent of folks believe, Elvis is still alive…

I know, I know, this may come as a shock to some of you… sorry.

I applaud your passion Euclid440. Again, I'll say, my interest in a HHT was never to determine if I can shave off that razor. No myths or legends need to be called on the carpet. No need for KoolAid antidote. Just some observations and some experiences. The Ting Ting Tick thing was just another observation. Nothing more nothing less.
Anyway, who's this Elvis guy? Does he sell razors or hones?

600grit on these for 15 min or so. Great info! Silly me was trying to get every hint of a scratch out of this stone. At hour two, I thought to ask the question here, and got a good answer. But that's what this forum is all about correct? Learning and sharing knowledge. Thanks to all that contribute useful info. Euclid440, between the venom, I see tons of wisdom. Thanks for your input here as well. I could do without all the furor, and misquotes, but whatever.

Originally Posted by Slurryer

So this evening the plan is to take the remaining two razors I use regularly, and put them on this hone as well. They both shave well now, but would like to see how they perform after using this hone. Is there anything I should do to prep this razor like going back to the 8K before I start on the La Roccia. With the insight I've picked up here, I hope to improve on the results I obtained the first go around. Since I've lapped this with 320 grit W/D I'm assuming that it will work more slowly than if I had used 600, as suggested above. Would 100 passes be good, starting with a light slurry, and water after every 10 passes?

I don't believe in so many of this and so many of that. Find a test to use that lets the razor tell you. When I rehone a razor that has been shaving, I first establish where the edge is. I will hone a few passes with heavy slurry or 1k-4k, just to see that the edge has degraded slightly the entire length, then I will finish as normal.
All razors are different. Where 30 laps may work on one, the next may need 50 or more. You learned to perform the HHT very quickly, and you have the right idea, of learning all you can from what the razor is trying to tell you. You noticed the difference in sound, regardless of what it indicated, if anything. Many here have established methods that work for them. Some may be a little hit or miss at times. I can not say enough that paper cutting tells me more about the razor edge than anything else I have found. Some slice grapes or tomatoes. Paper cutting may be a little neater, but still gets all over. But the paper cutting is what I used at the beginning of this to establish where the blade is now, and to establish when the entire edge had degraded slightly. And, it is how to find if continued lighter strokes will coax more from a particular stone. I have no doubt that this stone is not 15K, however, I believe I can get very nearly that grade of cut from it. Note: none of the thurys, etchers, or coticules ever stated what grit they were? And yet some experienced honers can get excellent shaving edges directly from some of these stones.
My earliest honing experience was to watch a friend of my dads pick a stone out of a creek, after throwing several back, and walk back to the porch to put an arm hair popping edge on his pocket knife using that stone. Was it the stone, or the man?
As mentioned by the last poster, have fun!