Thread: How did barbers hone a wedge in the olden days?

That's ok, you are free to not believe that simply rubbing two hones together can make them flat. It doesn't matter to me at all how you decide what to believe and what not to. As you know unlike you I spend most of my days figuring out correctly how things work regardless of what the popular opinion, if any, on the matter is and after many years I'm fairly good at it.

If some day I end up with two similar relatively soft hones I can quickly demonstrate how to make them flat by rubbing them together without any third stone, but it's not particularly high on my list of interesting things to do as I already know how it works and how it doesn't.

I think we might try it at a meet and see what happens

http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...ml#post1497623


That is the best place to test these things out

Originally Posted by Hirlau

I'd love for someone to challenge me on something I know,,,, I just can't think of anything to suggest for them,,,

I would challenge you on nothing John

Originally Posted by gugi

I heard you get hair on your palms... anybody wanna offer proof?

I though abrasion wears hair away...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

And yet there are 100's if not more references that disagree.. The closest I found to your Hypothesis is that it might be possible to get/keep two flat surfaces, flat, although unlikely, especially when doing it by hand...

Since I am not going to try it myself, I am going to have to go with the majority and lengthily consensus on this one, you can believe what you chose...

Seems that nobody is arguing that the 3 surface system works, at least not that I found anyway... Not that I plan on trying it either...

It works. I have used it many times throughout my career as a machinist and machinery repairman. I have also done it many times with stones and silicon carbide loose grit. It works very well on extremely hard stones like Black and Translucent Arkansas. I even maintain a set of 3 granite lapping plates using the 3-stone method. When they get too far out of flat from loose grit lapping stones, they are lapped to each other and flattened back out. (Imagine that, 2 surfaces rubbed against each other, lapping plate and stone, and they go out of flat every time!)

The 3 stone method generates surfaces flat enough that light can't be seen between them at all with the lapped sides together directly in front of a light source. Using a Starrett straight edge and 3 pieces of steel shim stock, all 3 are tight and supporting equal weight.

Trying to rub two stones together to get them flat would be an exercise in futility without wasting a ridiculous amount of time and effort unless your definition of flat is more like "pretty flat." Mine is within a few thousandths of an inch max. Using 3 stones results in dead perfect flatness with absolutely no special movements or procedures other than following a sequence: stone A to B, B to C, A to C. After enough iterations, the stones will be flat, as they slowly cancel out deviations from flatness in each other. Trying to do this with two stones would require constant measuring and selective pressure and movement at the least.

And yes I've done this also. It takes forever and is a pain in the ass. It's possible with steel also - this is how some of the most accurate machine tools in the world are made, by checking against a flatness reference and hand scraping the high points away. Flatness in the millionths of an inch range is possible this way. Nobody is saying it (2 stone method) absolutely can't be done, that's just silliness. Anything can be done. But going to extremes and wasting time and effort to do something just because it can be done is a fool's errand. What's being said is that just rubbing two stones together as most that hone razors would do - the same as they do with a diamond lapping plate for instance - will NOT result in flat surfaces.

Originally Posted by gugi

... As you know unlike you I spend most of my days figuring out correctly how things work regardless of what the popular opinion, if any, on the matter is and after many years I'm fairly good at it.

If some day I end up with two similar relatively soft hones I can quickly demonstrate how to make them flat by rubbing them together without any third stone, but it's not particularly high on my list of interesting things to do as I already know how it works and how it doesn't.

Wow - and you can still get through doors with ease?



And yes, I do agree with your quote made some pages back:

"...by their posts ye shall know them..."

Regards,
Neil

I'm thinking of shaving (no lie) my palms.

Originally Posted by WW243

I'm thinking of shaving (no lie) my palms.

I don't want to worry you Bill, but I think you should, especially when the full moon looms large in the heavens, for:

"...Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night,
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright..."



Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by eKretz

What's being said is that just rubbing two stones together as most that hone razors would do - the same as they do with a diamond lapping plate for instance - will NOT result in flat surfaces.

Yes, for a monkey-proof method that works every time you need three surfaces. But since we're a bit more than monkeys one of the three surfaces can be substituted with a bit of knowledge.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Wow - and you can still get through doors with ease?

I don't, do you?