Thread: HAD begins: DMT D8XX for Shapton 16k?

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Ahem.... me thinks a little bit of that slipped through..... in between the lines.


Regards

Kaptain "I guess it's all just "10-24 µm dust mite excreta" under the bridge now." Zero

Well, thanks for letting me lean a bit that way without bringing me back down to earth at any rate.

Originally Posted by cassady

Just a word in my own defense:

My post (which started this whole thing) wasn't "I can't buy everything at once" at all. Nor was it a "Do I really need the DGLP." It was "is the D8XX too rough for a 16k? Do I have to get a D8C?"

(A question which Glen thankfully answered before the shooting began!)

I've had the Shaptons for some time -- I got them for my (Japanese) kitchen knives, well before I got into straights, and before there was a thing called a DGLP (or so I remember, anyway). When I got them, the common wisdom in the knife-sharpening community was that the best thing for lapping, including the Shapton glass stones, was the D8XX. But of course, very few folks use a 16k for knife sharpening. But those dig some striations into the stones, and since I'd never used the 16k, and am only really starting to learn to hone straights, it was a reasonable question, I think.

Anyhoo, just my two cents. I don't necessarily feel attacked, but I figured I'd clear that up.

cass

Hey Cass, we're sorry for going a bit off topic on your post. You raised some good points and potential for discussion here. So thanks for that.

Chris L

No skin off my chin, so to speak!

Actually, as with many posts, I continue to listen and learn from those of you who walked the paths before me.

So thanks to you all!

cass

My question is how smooth does the DMT D8C leave the hone compared to the DGLP? and do you even have to lap the DMT D8C?

Mark

Originally Posted by Fraserazor

My question is how smooth does the DMT D8C leave the hone compared to the DGLP? and do you even have to lap the DMT D8C?

Mark

Hello Mark. I have both and have used both and I can't see a difference between the two. The DGLP is a bit easier to use than the DMT D8C because of the valleys in the surface of the plate. There is no need to lap the DMT D8C because it is plate steel and the only thing you would flatten would be the diamonds.

Another thing the guys were discussing was the cost of the DGLP over the DMT D8C. For the budget minded I think the DMT D8C would do just as good a job and you would have enough money left over to get the 4K, 8K, and 16K Shapton Glass and have a nice basic set of hones to last a lifetime. Later on if you still had HAD you could add a 1K and 30K to round out your set.

bj

Originally Posted by 2Sharp

Hello Mark. I have both and have used both and I can't see a difference between the two. The DGLP is a bit easier to use than the DMT D8C because of the valleys in the surface of the plate. There is no need to lap the DMT D8C because it is plate steel and the only thing you would flatten would be the diamonds.

Another thing the guys were discussing was the cost of the DGLP over the DMT D8C. For the budget minded I think the DMT D8C would do just as good a job and you would have enough money left over to get the 4K, 8K, and 16K Shapton Glass and have a nice basic set of hones to last a lifetime. Later on if you still had HAD you could add a 1K and 30K to round out your set.

bj

Thanks, thats made my mind up, I'm going to get the DMT D8C, no point in splashing out extra $$$ on something that does the same job!

Its got me thinking, when we talk about honing, different grit sizes, scratch patterns and so on, lets say you have the Shapton 16000 and lap it with DMT D8C or DGLP, what surface would that leave on the Shapton (surely the grit level on the DMT or DGLP is corser than 16000). I mean isn't it taking a step backwards to lap something with a rougher surface than the hone?

Any body know the grit sizes of the DMT DC8 or DGLP? may be it has no relavance, Im no honmeister just probable getting confused with all this info.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts

Originally Posted by Fraserazor

Its got me thinking, when we talk about honing, different grit sizes, scratch patterns and so on, lets say you have the Shapton 16000 and lap it with DMT D8C or DGLP, what surface would that leave on the Shapton (surely the grit level on the DMT or DGLP is corser than 16000). I mean isn't it taking a step backwards to lap something with a rougher surface than the hone?

Any body know the grit sizes of the DMT DC8 or DGLP? may be it has no relavance, Im no honmeister just probable getting confused with all this info.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts

325 for the D8c, and something comparable for the GDLP, though I do not know the exact grit.
Basically, it doesn't matter. You will have a scratched surface of the 16K shapton, but the cutting particles itself will still be 16K. The only possible issue is that not every part of the razor is touching the stone initially (due to the coarse scratches) but at the end of the stroke this will have evened out.
theoretically, the hone would cut a bit faster it it had been lapped with a 1K stone, but the difference should not be by much.

Also, if you use light force when lapping, then the scratch lines will be shallow. If you use lots of pressure, then the scratch lines will be deeper and the stone will feel smoother.
The feeling will be different, but that should be all.

Out of interest how long do you think my DMT DC8 will last lapping the Shaptons? how long has any of you guys been using it for this purpose?

Cheers Mark

Mark, I'm pretty darn sure nobody has worn out a DMT lapping Shapton hones. Based on the feel I get from lapping mine, I can only suggest that the DMT will last a loooong time unless abused. Long enough that you won't feel bad about having to shell out another $55 or so to replace it when the time comes. Mine HAS been abused, lapping several hard barbers hones and a Spyderco UF which is an entirely different beast from the Shaptons as it is a solid chunk of ceramic rather than powdered ceramic grit held together with a soft binder. The Spyderco was really rough on my DMT to the point where it won't work well for some High Speed steel cutters I sharpen in the shop but it still works wonderfully for lapping hones and sharpening normal high carbon steel such as knives. It's just a matter of the tips of the diamonds having gone a bit dull so that they can't *dig* in on those uberhard HSS cutters I have when honing the flats which are about the size of a silver dollar. They still work on the edges of those cutters just fine..... it's just when trying to lap the large surface area of such hard steel that doesn't work as well anymore. I expect I'll still get years of lapping hones out of mine, even with the abuse I gave it....

Regards

Christian

Thanks Kaptin Zero,just one question, is your DMT a DC8?

Regards,

Mark