Thread: Livi's Honing Setup

Does anyone know what kind of "japanese hone" he uses. That's pretty broad....?
Just curious....

Yeah, that video is crazy. I'd like to know what was done to the blade first--if it had gone though a few pyramids like that, or if it just had the bevel ground out and that was all the honing he did. I guess the latter, I wouldn't think he'd go all the way down to 300, but theres no telling.

I don't think that the yellow side of the strop is pasted, btw, the bottom where the leather wraps around the strop is yellow, too. Unlikely that part would be pasted.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

You forgot the skin stropping in the listed progression!

Agreed. The infamous palm strop. Quite the eye opener. I still would rather nick a $60 leather strop versus my hand, though.

Doubt the yellow side is pasted as well. I have one loom from him that came with 1 side of fabric with chromium on and a small block of the green paste. And the other side is the same yellow leather.

But yeah. There is more than 1 way to move a razor across a stone to get it sharp =)

The hones look like Naniwas, don't they?

The infamous palm strop, LOL
Its pretty useful to feel whether the blade is smooth.
Maybe thats the way to learn not to cut strops?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

So, if any noob had posted that vid we would all most likely jump on:

--the straight on edge grind on the 300 grit

--the lift the spine as you strop to flip the razor over

--the very high incedence angle he uses to "shave test" the razor...dry no less.


I guess it works for him though????

He was flipping over the edge while honing as well. And slamming the razor back onto the hone. And no light honing pressure there, hehe. He's not only lifting the spine to flip when stropping, but on a few of them on the CrOx he's actually lifting early and rolling onto the edge as he does it. This is actually the perfect video to illustrate something I was saying earlier about how the stropping sound changes and you can hear when stropping on edge only (turns into a "shhheeeeeennngg" sound at the end of the stroke when the spine is lifted and edge is down).

I'm not saying it all doesn't work for him, because he's clearly one of the greatest razor makers ever, but I wouldn't show that video to a newbie as any indication of how to sharpen a razor. You're right though, if anyone but someone of his level posted that video, people would tear him up. He's broken at least half of the most basic rules we all read here regarding stropping and honing. I'm honestly not sure what to take away from the video... that there's more than one way to skin a cat? Or do we all agree that the razor probably isn't at the same sharpness level many of us like, or, at the same level you'd get a razor back from a resident honemeister at?

Maybe a key thought is that we all define shave ready differently? That razor would probably shave at some level, but I wouldn't want to be the test subject for a shave

I can't take a thing away from that razor, though. What a stunner.

Originally Posted by pjrage

He was flipping over the edge while honing as well. And slamming the razor back onto the hone. And no light honing pressure there, hehe. He's not only lifting the spine to flip when stropping, but on a few of them on the CrOx he's actually lifting early and rolling onto the edge as he does it. This is actually the perfect video to illustrate something I was saying earlier about how the stropping sound changes and you can hear when stropping on edge only (turns into a "shhheeeeeennngg" sound at the end of the stroke when the spine is lifted and edge is down).

I'm not saying it all doesn't work for him, because he's clearly one of the greatest razor makers ever, but I wouldn't show that video to a newbie as any indication of how to sharpen a razor. You're right though, if anyone but someone of his level posted that video, people would tear him up. He's broken at least half of the most basic rules we all read here regarding stropping and honing. I'm honestly not sure what to take away from the video... that there's more than one way to skin a cat? Or do we all agree that the razor probably isn't at the same sharpness level many of us like, or, at the same level you'd get a razor back from a resident honemeister at?

Maybe a key thought is that we all define shave ready differently? That razor would probably shave at some level, but I wouldn't want to be the test subject for a shave

I can't take a thing away from that razor, though. What a stunner.

What I take away: I'm not buying one of his razors!

Like many rules, they are very useful as a guide, especially for the novice. However one of the characteristics of a "master" of a craft is the posession of a level of knowledge and skill such that the rules can effectively be broken.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

What I take away: I'm not buying one of his razors!

I am lucky enough to have a few of his custom razors and they are flawless. As much works of art as they are tools to shave with and they were plenty sharp when I got them. Lynn may have had something to do with that.

Originally Posted by pjrage

{clip}

I'm not saying it all doesn't work for him, because he's clearly one of the greatest razor makers ever, but I wouldn't show that video to a newbie as any indication of how to sharpen a razor. You're right though, if anyone but someone of his level posted that video, people would tear him up. He's broken at least half of the most basic rules we all read here regarding stropping and honing. I'm honestly not sure what to take away from the video... that there's more than one way to skin a cat? Or do we all agree that the razor probably isn't at the same sharpness level many of us like, or, at the same level you'd get a razor back from a resident honemeister at?
{snip}

What I'm finding, reading through the archives and such, is that those rules were WRITTEN here. A lot of these are things that were developed in cooperation by members here as clear, easily describable ways to teach people how to handle razors. They are not implacable natural laws--and they are not universal. So there's no reason to assume that Mastro Livi does not know what he is doing just because he does not do what we do.

Japanese honers also use very different techniques--circular strokes and using very short, wide hones, ratios for traditional straights etc. but no one doubts the results...

Has anyone gotten a razor from Livi that WASN'T shave ready? That's the question to ask.