Thread: Harshness and Final Bevel Shape

My last venture into high grit pyramids got me thinking. The effect of going back to the slurried Nat without tape reduced the angle of the microbevel of the 30k. The slurry reduced the amount of metal supporting the edge and in effect made the bevel flatter reducing the micro bevel angle. In other words, a certain amount of convex bevel shape is related to the smoothness factor we feel while shaving. Supporting this new idea, I took a harsh high grit pyramid bevel and reworked it with a micro bevel on a 16k, then one more piece of tape to make another micro with the 30k. Result was a smooth shave once again. Also, supporting the importance of having some degree of convex shape are some of the best razor honers using diamond spray on felt to finish off their bevels. Some of the naturals may also be creating a degree of convex bevel do to their slurries.
It now makes some sense to me that a perfect edge with no convex shape interacts with the skin giving a harsh shave. A convex shape, by whatever means created, makes contact with the skin at the same time as the edge supporting it and giving a smooth shave. Does that make sense?

Sounds like fun and I think it is really cool that you do all this experimenting Mike. As for me I'm getting smooth shaves honing without tape or secondary bevels.

DE blades have a reputation for harshness, and they're all honed with secondary and tertiary bevels. But do whatever works for you.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Sounds like fun and I think it is really cool that you do all this experimenting Mike. As for me I'm getting smooth shaves honing without tape or secondary bevels.

How do you know you are not creating the same effect with what you do after honing. I do very little stropping after honing, do you use pastes or diamond spray?

Originally Posted by mparker762

DE blades have a reputation for harshness, and they're all honed with secondary and tertiary bevels. But do whatever works for you.

Yes, but they are at the mercy of the preset angle set by the tool. We adjust the angle we shave with continualy while we shave. The DE user a an edge to interact with, we glide on our bevels.

Originally Posted by Kingfish

How do you know you are not creating the same effect with what you do after honing. I do very little stropping after honing, do you use pastes or diamond spray?

Rarely. I was talking to a friend and referred to "resorting" to paste or diamond spray. He got angry and said I was foolish for looking at it like that. Maybe so ? I have a fixation on trying to get my razors as sharp as possible with hones and stropping. On some razors, an ATS-34 and a couple of S30V I had to go with paste and spray to get them over the hump.

I have also experimented with using paste or spray following honing and I've come to the conclusion that I can get any razor scary sharp if I "resort" to them. I still like to see what I can do off of the hones and strop alone. I can get a razor really smooth shaving and sharp with the naniwa 12k and even better with the shap pro 30k. Not to mention Eschers or coticules. It is just my personal challenge to myself to see how far I can get with what I'm doing now.

OTOH, maybe my sharp isn't near as sharp as yours ? I don't know but it is working for me.

Whatever works for you. I tried the micro bevel and found no difference in shaving using the standard continuous bevel. I thought that when one was in the 30K range the amount of metal removal was almost nonexistent and all that you were doing is polishing the bevel. Not true? That would mean that when creating a micro bevel by adding tape all you were doing is polishing the very edge, say about 10 microns from the very outer edge of the blade.


Later,
Richard

"Whatever Works for you"
Please do not think I am advocating the microbevel or anything that I am doing. For some work, the flater the bevel the better, but not for straight shaving. All I am thinking is that our smoothest shaves may not be just an edge thing, but just as important working together is the bevel shape. The convex bevels are achieved by stropping, pastes, softer stones(maybe Naniwa in this, I don't have one) slurries with naturals. What I did in my experiment was to remove the metal behind the micro making it flat. The edge was in all honesty no sharper that many do here on a daily practice with their eyes closed. Many of you are way more practiced an accomplished than me.
Many of us who sharpen in other worlds look to slice of material microns thin and leave a shiny surface. Flat bevels are better for this. We want our razors to magically slice of hair and leave our faces in perfect shape at the same time.....convex shape + good edge= smooth. I don't know, just trying to make sense from so much info and practices shared here at SRP.

Originally Posted by riooso

Whatever works for you. I tried the micro bevel and found no difference in shaving using the standard continuous bevel. I thought that when one was in the 30K range the amount of metal removal was almost nonexistent and all that you were doing is polishing the bevel. Not true? That would mean that when creating a micro bevel by adding tape all you were doing is polishing the very edge, say about 10 microns from the very outer edge of the blade.


Later,
Richard

Just one note hear, the amount of material that the 30k modifies is way more than you might be thinking. There is quite a bit of metal left behind and hence the need to clean the hone after each razor. I would venture to say that 10Microns of bevel created is far too little. Many times I can see the micro with my naked eye and don't forget, normal it is only one piece of tape which creates a larger micro than you may be thinking of.

Interesting thought...

I think along the same lines but a slight bit different,,, You are thinking that it is the actual shape of the bevel that is improving the feel on the face...

First the disclaimer: The one thing that truly differentiates Straight Razor edges from every other type of sharpening is the "face factor"... This always throws an unknown into these discussions...

I agree to an extent that it is the sides of the bevel that create the comfort factor on an edge, but I don't think it is the shape I think it is the polish of those sides.. So in a way we agree that the more refined those sides are the better the blade feels on your face...