Thread: Got Screwed

The ebay pictures show the condition of the blade. The seller's description
"This Razor shows little or no use. Very clean and defined."
looks pretty reasonable for a person who doesn't know much.
I would say you clearly don't know much either, or you would've noticed the problems from the pictures she has on ebay. I must point out that it's you who valued the razor at $46, the seller's starting price was $10.
You may win the dispute, but I don't think you should. I am most certainly not going to hold the description against the seller and I would be willing to do business with them.

I have gone through a couple of disputes with ebay sellers. Generally I do it as a last resort only when it seems that the seller is intentionally trying to deceive the buyers by deliberately hiding the condition of the razor. I don't remember a razor I've bought on ebay that hasn't had any chips to the edge, those are a given. If you want a chip-free edge, you should purchase razors that are still sealed in the original factory packaging. It'll cost you significantly more though.

Originally Posted by gugi

I don't remember a razor I've bought on ebay that hasn't had any chips to the edge, those are a given.

Expected, but not gauranteed. Seller advertised as "shave ready" but it had a bit of burr on a small portion of the the edge. No chips though (It's possible it had never been sharpened since being made). Ok, ok, I did see a couple of micro chips with a scope.

Shavelle, 2 tips:

1. Ebay has a BAD case of "grade inflation" with respect to feedback ratings. I simply won't buy from anyone whose feedback rating is less than 99.0%...and will only buy from buyers with 99.0 to 99.5% if no one else has the same thing. Can't see this gal's rating, but I'm guessing it may not be 99.5 to 100%.
2. There are a LOT of straight razors being sold on ebay by estate auction sellers--who are selling off an entire estate (meaning, all the belongings of someone who died) and thus, they really have no clue about a lot of the things they are selling. So you have to pin them down and ask hard questions and ask to see lots of photos and such.

Hope this helps!

Originally Posted by gugi

The ebay pictures show the condition of the blade. The seller's description
"This Razor shows little or no use. Very clean and defined."
looks pretty reasonable for a person who doesn't know much.
I would say you clearly don't know much either, or you would've noticed the problems from the pictures she has on ebay. I must point out that it's you who valued the razor at $46, the seller's starting price was $10.
You may win the dispute, but I don't think you should. I am most certainly not going to hold the description against the seller and I would be willing to do business with them.

I have gone through a couple of disputes with ebay sellers. Generally I do it as a last resort only when it seems that the seller is intentionally trying to deceive the buyers by deliberately hiding the condition of the razor. I don't remember a razor I've bought on ebay that hasn't had any chips to the edge, those are a given. If you want a chip-free edge, you should purchase razors that are still sealed in the original factory packaging. It'll cost you significantly more though.

Strictly my opinion, but Sir Gugi has given you some fair and sound judgment and advice. Ebay is a crapshoot straight up! I wouldn't NEG the poor gal...she obviously is not an expert although she did the typical ebay seller deal of posing as "sort of one". I can tell you from YEARS of ebay selling experience with thousands of transactions and real life experience as an Auctioneer and Estates.Antique Appraiser, you should really just accept that these kinds of things happen.

so you can see the nicks in the listing pictures? my, you have good eyes. and every used razor you buy has a chip in the edge?... lol, yea right.... my fault for hitting the bid button... my fault for not requesting more pics... but she has sold a few razors and i figure she has eyes to see the conditiion which is definitely NOT little or no use. it's more like a little abused....i expected the thing to be spotted but didn't expect a description of "little or no use" to be used for a razor that i'd have to spend several hours on redoing an edge let alone have nicks that can be clearly seen...time is money. if you still think she's an honest and top notch seller get this... i sent her pics of the razor and she said it wasn't even the same razor. would you like me to forward you her email? that's like selling a pair of shoes with a worn sole as almost new. we all have our opinions but the lady had a 7 day return policy that she didn't honor and then implied that i am a liar. F' THAT!!!! whether it was in the shape she described or not i should have been able to return it per her listing....and not be accused of damaging the thing when pics show otherwise. i got another razor that wasn't in so good of shape that i haven't even said anything about and i won't.. the listing said it was in "pretty good shape"... a lot of difference to me between that and "little or no use"...little or no use means LITTLE OR NO USE!!! could have been unused!! clearly it was used and had nicks!!! like you say, it's a crap shoot. i was just wanting to return the thing (IT WAS IN HER LISTING THAT I COULD DO THAT!!!) and i don't really appreciate being called a liar and i'm sure nobody else does either. i'll even un-neg her if i get my $$ back (which you can do now)..

i'll post the results.. the case was just opened yesterday. and indeed i learned a lesson.

I'm not going to weigh in on the blade condition as plenty of others already have and I'm no straight expert anyway but I can speak to the dispute issue. If you paid with PayPal and the seller refused to give you satisfaction open the dispute with them NOT Ebay. Ebay favours the seller and if they are a Power Seller they can get away with murder. PayPal may be Ebay property now but they have a function outside of the Ebay scope of activity as a means of effecting the electronic transfer of funds and they wish to maintain a level of respectability, credibility, and reliability for those end users who never buy from Ebay and thus they tend to favour the buyer as they want people to know they can use PayPal with the assurance their interests are looked after. In my years of dealing with PayPal I have never known them to not favour the buyer but the same cannot be said for Ebay even when it was evident the seller was committing outright fraud and violating Ebay's own policies. PayPal's prejudice is known amongst some unethical sellers and this is why they refuse to accept PayPal.

So even if you have the Ebay dispute open I would forget it and open one with PayPal as Ebay will prolong this as long as possible. You'll have an answer from PayPal in a timely fashion.

This whole it is your own fault you got screwed argument is nuts. I couldn't see her picture. He is being accused of switching blades and playing other games. Plus the seller not honoring the return policy. This isn't his fault he is being lied to. All this could have been solved with an accurate description on the sellers part.

But that being said, I always make online purchases with ebay or online sellers like the people on amazon's used book section with my AMEX. Then I go through the dispute process, if I lose, I call up AMEX and dispute the charges, they have yet to let me down, when I've fallen for something online.

Originally Posted by stdreb27

This whole it is your own fault you got screwed argument is nuts.

Nobody is saying Shavelle deserved to get screwed. It has just been pointed out that there are different ways to interpret things and deal with them.

In particular, the seller's return policy is a full refund within 7 days (buyer to pay postage.) That would have been one option to take without even disussing the razor's condition! It may have been wise to take that option, and avoid all the animosity.

Seller's comment: "Razor shows little or no use. Very clean and defined."
To an average, uninformed person that claim is an entirely reasonable one. Even to people like us, it can be interpreted as true. It is clean and defined, with the exception of the scuff at the toe of the blade. What "shows use"? Basically a razor shows no visible signs of use from shaving, just from honing. The hone wear on this razor is not excessive. Shavelle says "honed unevenly on the cutting edge." Guess what - my brand new Dovo's bevel is far more uneven than that now that I've made it shave ready, and that's purely down to the geomentry of the blade, not bad technique or heavy use.

The razor "had tiny nicks at the point." That's damage, not sign of use. Again, the seller's description does not contradict the facts. I hate having to ask questions on ebay. But if it was that important to you that the blade be free of nicks you should have asked that specific question before bidding.

If I had bought this razor I would not have felt I'd been screwed. I'd have just honed it up and used it.
Or I may have returned it under the seller's policy if I was really unhappy.
Shavelle has chosen instead to go through a stressful confrontation and may or may not get a refund. In the meantime he is lumbered with a razor he can't use or hone. All for what? To prove he was in the right? How important is that to you really? Wouldn't you have been better off spending an hour honing the blade instead of several(?) hours spent on the dispute?

If you see this as a matter of principle, fair enough. But please accept that there are different ways to view this situation, and you did have other options.

P.S. The seller also shot herself in the foot. She has lost her 100% positive feedback over this. Just dumb that.

the deal is through paypal not ebay.. lesson is learned. i tried to be civil with the person by just asking for my money back to begin with but that didn't work so now she'll have to stand behind her 96.4 instead for now instead of 100. i bet next time she'll not offer money back guarantee... and next time i won't bid on impulse.