Thread: HHT Levels?

Originally Posted by Mephisto

I was just joking with the 1st post. But thanks for the details.

I know, so was I Well, half-joking. I'd say a 2.5 joke on a scale of 1-5.

Originally Posted by bill3152

I use the hht. Works for me. You dont have to. Shave test is supreme obviously. To ridicule it or tell somebody its useless or the only way to tell if the blade is ready is ridiculous. Like to use it? Great, find its a waste of time? Great. Whatever floats you boat. Some guys hone their blades on the frosted edge of their car windows. Great. Whatever makes you happy.

I stated early on in this thread that I thought the most interesting thing about these HHT threads, and there have been lots of them and will be more, is that they tend to devolve into sarcasm and ridicule so quickly. If anyone wonders why that is, here's a clue.

What if there was an objective test for razor sharpness that predicted shave quality? Certainly this is not impossible, as some have attempted to state, because quantification of an edge's sharpness is amenable to scientific inquiry and mathematical calculation. Although whiskers and faces certainly vary from one person to the next, edge sharpness itself is another matter and can be quantified fairly easily. Edge sharpness is a function of steel quality, bevel angles and the degree of refinement of the bevels where they meet in the edge. That is a matter of physics, measurement and calculation and therefore objective.

The HHT is another matter, of course. The HHT is not a scientific test, and that is mostly a result of the uncontrollable variables involved in it. Some people may find it predictive of a shave ready edge, but some others are unable to get it to work or unwilling to exert the effort required to make the test functional for them. That part is understandable.

What doesn't make much sense, especially in a straight razor shaving forum in which the quest for a sharp edge occupies much of the posting found here, is that attempts to discover a simple test for sharpness and evaluating an edge for shave readiness are almost universally dismissed, ridiculed and responded to with sarcastic posts. There are sub-forums on SRP about hones, strops, honing, stropping, blade maintenance and other topics all related to edge sharpness and maintaining that sharpness. Yet anyone's attempt to find a way to evaluate that sharpness prior to shaving with the blade is frowned upon.

In a rifle or sharpshooting forum, would attempts to predict accuracy in terms of barrel rifling, bullet shape or different charges be dismissed so quickly and easily? Wouldn't members of a handgun or rifle forum be interested in establishing ways of predicting accuracy based on such factors? Why is it different here?

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that a test, the HHT just for example, could be found that did predict shave readiness. Assuming that could be done, wouldn't one ordinarily expect that test to be of some interest to those shaving with straight razors? Would it matter much if the test was hard to conceptualize, difficult to master at first, and that considerable work would have to be expended in practice to get it right? What if even a brand new Newbie would then have the ability to tell if a razor was shave ready and a practiced shaver could tell immediately whether a blade was ready for a touch-up?

Are there people threatened by that possibility? Why are they threatened?

I think if there were such a test it would be welcomed. I don't think anyone would be threatened by it.
HHT just isn't that test.

This could take an interesting turn to psychology. One possibility - at least in my mind - is that people who do not trust/like/preach the HHT are fed up by seeing the same discussions on the HHT over and over again and hence reply more harshly than they used to when they were new, almost like telling a child for the seventh time he can't have a cookie. Also, when one says "unreliable", it is easier for the next to say "rubbish".

Are they threatened, as you put it? Perhaps, in their pride, but only vaguely and sub-consciously.


If you thought the HHT had a YMMV to it, this will take the YMMV to a whole new level (level 6).

The very fact that the HHT is measured with human hair makes it completely unusable to compare findings between different persons. My HHT4 could be a HHT3 or HHT5 for you. Given the non linear differences between hair, there is no way to calibrate the HHT levels in a meaningful way. HHT can be a predictor for shave quality for an individual, but nothing more than that. And whether a razor needs a touchup or not can be determined easily by just shaving with it.

As for being threatened... not really. HHT is discussed again and again. I think it is more annoyance by people refusing to first read the old threads before they start new ones trying to rehash the same discussion yet again. By the very nature of the test (using wildly varying types of hair) it is a stupid way to compare edges between different persons. And for using it just for you: sure why not. But then you just have to figure out how the test correlates to shavereadiness for you.

What I haven't read in this discussion yet is this: I like plinking hairs. It gives me satisfaction to see that my own honing and stropping, which I like as well, made my razor sharp enough to cut a hair in mid-air. I like impressing visitors with it. I like honing my pocket knife until it can pop hairs, even though the edge won't last two days.

Does that make it a good test? No. Is it fun? Yup. What is the most important reason for me to shave with a straight razor? Fun.

I think this post probably has enough sarcasm for the entire thread which obviously you cannot separate yourself from having had your say more than enough times to make your point here. Have a feeling you are not going to be happy here until the world accepts what works for you as the holy grail and I doubt that will happen. I think the previous dead horse being beat has run it's course here.

I think people will continue to either use the HHT or not at their discretion either based on their level of experience, lack thereof, personal preference or simply because they want to try it out for themselves.

I do think the statements made concerning the problems this test causes new guys were right on target and have probably done more damage than good for these folks.

It seems as though all sides have been covered here and now we can wait until the next thread.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by ace

I stated early on in this thread that I thought the most interesting thing about these HHT threads, and there have been lots of them and will be more, is that they tend to devolve into sarcasm and ridicule so quickly. If anyone wonders why that is, here's a clue.

What if there was an objective test for razor sharpness that predicted shave quality? Certainly this is not impossible, as some have attempted to state, because quantification of an edge's sharpness is amenable to scientific inquiry and mathematical calculation. Although whiskers and faces certainly vary from one person to the next, edge sharpness itself is another matter and can be quantified fairly easily. Edge sharpness is a function of steel quality, bevel angles and the degree of refinement of the bevels where they meet in the edge. That is a matter of physics, measurement and calculation and therefore objective.

The HHT is another matter, of course. The HHT is not a scientific test, and that is mostly a result of the uncontrollable variables involved in it. Some people may find it predictive of a shave ready edge, but some others are unable to get it to work or unwilling to exert the effort required to make the test functional for them. That part is understandable.

What doesn't make much sense, especially in a straight razor shaving forum in which the quest for a sharp edge occupies much of the posting found here, is that attempts to discover a simple test for sharpness and evaluating an edge for shave readiness are almost universally dismissed, ridiculed and responded to with sarcastic posts. There are sub-forums on SRP about hones, strops, honing, stropping, blade maintenance and other topics all related to edge sharpness and maintaining that sharpness. Yet anyone's attempt to find a way to evaluate that sharpness prior to shaving with the blade is frowned upon.

In a rifle or sharpshooting forum, would attempts to predict accuracy in terms of barrel rifling, bullet shape or different charges be dismissed so quickly and easily? Wouldn't members of a handgun or rifle forum be interested in establishing ways of predicting accuracy based on such factors? Why is it different here?

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that a test, the HHT just for example, could be found that did predict shave readiness. Assuming that could be done, wouldn't one ordinarily expect that test to be of some interest to those shaving with straight razors? Would it matter much if the test was hard to conceptualize, difficult to master at first, and that considerable work would have to be expended in practice to get it right? What if even a brand new Newbie would then have the ability to tell if a razor was shave ready and a practiced shaver could tell immediately whether a blade was ready for a touch-up?

Are there people threatened by that possibility? Why are they threatened?