Thread: HHT Levels?

Until someone comes up with a constant fiber,HHT is not a test,is an indicator so it should be called the HHI.
I spent decades in the med field,we did many tests,but we always used known reagents as calibrators.
The reagent in the so called HHT is a hair,The HHT is no where near a test.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

How on earth can a test be more predictive than the thing it is testing for? Let's try to keep the conversation in the realms of logic, please.

James.

From the standpoint of logic, the thing being tested for cannot be predictive at all. Because the shave test is nothing more than cutting many whiskers instead of just one, it follows that it cannot be as objective a test as the cutting of a single hair. After all, what is a good shave? Is it one that is BBS, DFS, one pass, two passes, or is it one that starts off wonderfully but degrades a bit as the shave continues? This subjectivity doesn't even take into account additional variables like technique and preparation.

While there may be levels of HHT as described in the Library article, it is still a comparatively objective fact whether the hanging hair is cut or not and in what way that happens. From the point of view of logic, a good shave is nearly undefinable, while the cutting of a single hair, no matter in what fashion that occurs, is much nearer to being a binary determination than whether a shave was a good one or not. Not only are the criteria for a good shave complex compared to the cutting of a single hair, but, even worse, the shave has to be subjectively evaluated by the person doing the shaving whereas the cutting of a single hair is a comparatively objective, much nearer to binary judgment.

At least the HHT is designed to be predictive. The problem with saying that a blade will shave well because it did shave well is that it is not predictive at all. In logic, such a statement is referred to as a tautology. It may be true all the time, but it cannot be predictive. The successful HHT, on the contrary, is not a tautologous reference, but is a logical implication which is inherently a predictive proposition.

I think I finally get it!! A good shave is not predictive nor an indication of a good shave......

You guys need to give Ace the last word here as obviously only the HHT can predict or we can't move on to the next HHT debate.

I for one, totally understand that if a razor won't pass the HHT and shaves wonderfully, that the honer must be reprogrammed to accept only the HHT; specifically when a razor that may pass the HHT gives a miserable shave. The must be logic to this predictive reasoning, but it's late and I'm tired.

I guess we could say that YMMV or that there are many personal preferences at play in this sport, but that may not present any logic at this point either.

Y'all have fun with this.

Originally Posted by ace

From the standpoint of logic, the thing being tested for cannot be predictive at all. Because the shave test is nothing more than cutting many whiskers instead of just one, it follows that it cannot be as objective a test as the cutting of a single hair. After all, what is a good shave? Is it one that is BBS, DFS, one pass, two passes, or is it one that starts off wonderfully but degrades a bit as the shave continues? This subjectivity doesn't even take into account additional variables like technique and preparation.

While there may be levels of HHT as described in the Library article, it is still a comparatively objective fact whether the hanging hair is cut or not and in what way that happens. From the point of view of logic, a good shave is nearly undefinable, while the cutting of a single hair, no matter in what fashion that occurs, is much nearer to being a binary determination than whether a shave was a good one or not. Not only are the criteria for a good shave complex compared to the cutting of a single hair, but, even worse, the shave has to be subjectively evaluated by the person doing the shaving whereas the cutting of a single hair is a comparatively objective, much nearer to binary judgment.

At least the HHT is designed to be predictive. The problem with saying that a blade will shave well because it did shave well is that it is not predictive at all. In logic, such a statement is referred to as a tautology. It may be true all the time, but it cannot be predictive. The successful HHT, on the contrary, is not a tautologous reference, but is a logical implication which is inherently a predictive proposition.

I like your reasoning, but you completely skip the part of how a razor feels on the skin. One of the reasons for using a straight razor is the reduction of skin irritation and the unmatched soft skin feel. While I agree that the HHT is slightly more objective, it is only an indication of sharpness. It will tell if the razor will shave hairs, not if it will rub three layers of skin off and leave your face red for two days.

Other than that, we're discussion symantics. While interesting, it misses the point of the HHT even more.

I've come to the time where the HHT, magic markers, magnifying glasses , etc are nice and may be useful if you're honing commercial. But, for me the shave is the real test. If after honing and stropping and the shave is poor. I just put that one aside and finish with another razor. I'll go back to the 'ruff' one and try it again ~2-3 times on a pasted strop or hone and if it still doesn't shave... A coating of grease and into the Resting Box to be brought out later after it has time to think about what it should do.

Last Word!

Can we talk about lathering strops now?

Originally Posted by ace

Last Word!

Can we talk about lathering strops now?

Only if it is done with cold water .......

the hairy heinie test, i use it sometimes.wait i jumped in late. what are we talking about?

Originally Posted by Mephisto

what are we talking about?

Semantics, whether or not shaving can be seen as a test to predict shaveability, and lathering strops. Of course, none of these items are related to the original question

Maybe a summary will help. Someone asked about the HHT scale that is sometimes used, such as HHT 4 and HHT 3. Some argue that these levels can be useful, others argue that they cannot be compared to other people's outcomes and therefore are of no use. Then some people argue that the HHT is a pretty good predictor of shave-readiness, whereas others argue that only the shave test is. And then someone said something about varying mileages.

Originally Posted by Laurens

Semantics, whether or not shaving can be seen as a test to predict shaveability, and lathering strops. Of course, none of these items are related to the original question

Maybe a summary will help. Someone asked about the HHT scale that is sometimes used, such as HHT 4 and HHT 3. Some argue that these levels can be useful, others argue that they cannot be compared to other people's outcomes and therefore are of no use. Then some people argue that the HHT is a pretty good predictor of shave-readiness, whereas others argue that only the shave test is. And then someone said something about varying mileages.

Nice and concise, thanks Laurens.