Thread: HHT Levels?

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I have a stash of hair I keep in a rather disgusting tangle near the microscope. It's a mixture of my wife's hair, my sister in law's hair, and my nieces hair. For some reason the males in my family refuse to give up their hair, probably because they looked at me and wondered how I lost all mine in the first place!

James.

Or they just think you are some sort of weird psycho hair collecting madman

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I have a stash of hair I keep in a rather disgusting tangle near the microscope. It's a mixture of my wife's hair, my sister in law's hair, and my nieces hair. For some reason the males in my family refuse to give up their hair, probably because they looked at me and wondered how I lost all mine in the first place!

James.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

Or they just think you are some sort of weird psycho hair collecting madman

Hmmmmmm Jimbo?????

I've gotta be honest here.
I tried the HHT with my hair (course, thick) and my wife's hair (fine, thin) and my razor performed exactly the same: Miserably.
That same razor is AWESOME on my face.
I'm convinced that TST is the only reliable one.
I'm VERY new to SR shaving, so I am by no means an authority...it's just that FOR ME, the HHT is not reliable.

It can be made more reliable with time. I remember my early forays into HHTs - my best ones were when the razor was quite ragged actually: shaveable but not that comfortable. As time progressed and I got better equipment and better at honing, I got what I now know to be better HHTs.

But the thing is that now, and I am by no means trying to pass myself off as some kind of honing savant or anything, I don't really need tests anymore - I know when a razor is ready off the hones somehow. I think it has to do with using essentially the same honing setup for the past several years, and just pure repetition. I still do the tests, but I'm basically always right. I've even been tempted on occasion to forego the shave test and just send the razor out, but you can bet the first time I do that the edge will fail...

James.

In effect, the "Shave Test" is just an HHT with anchored hairs. Not only that, but those hairs, whiskers, are prepared for cutting by all the various preparations we read about here including hot showers, pre-shave oils, hot towel applications, lathering etc. While it is true that hairs differ across different individuals, it is also true that beards and whiskers differ as well, and there is no reason to believe that shave tests are universally valid anymore than to believe that the HHT is valid when using different hairs to perform the tests. The YMMV argument therefore can also apply to shave tests as well as it does with the HHT.

The argument can further be made that the HHT performed properly by someone who knows how to perform it can be even more predictive of quality shaves than the shave test. This is because the ability of a razor to perform a shave is facilitated by all the preparation referred to above while the HHT can be performed with a single, unanchored hair unaffected by any kind of facilitating preparation. This makes it even more likely that a blade that will pass a properly performed HHT will also produce a close shave because the whiskers being shaved are anchored, prepared and not merely suspended in air. That the HHT is more difficult to be successful with than an actual shave only makes it more predictive of a quality shave result and not less predictive.

In addition, in spite of the fact that many don't put in the effort to learn how to perform the HHT and that hairs do, of course, differ among individuals, the HHT is essentially a more objective test for sharpness than the shave test. The shave test is less objective because it is not only affected by the preparation alluded to above but by variations in technique utilized by those doing the shaving. The result is a considerable amount of subjectivity, and that is one of the reasons we often see those new to shaving having difficulty and getting a poor shave out of a pro-honed razor, a razor that would easily pass the HHT.

Originally Posted by ace

In effect, the "Shave Test" is just an HHT with anchored hairs. Not only that, but those hairs, whiskers, are prepared for cutting by all the various preparations we read about here including hot showers, pre-shave oils, hot towel applications, lathering etc. While it is true that hairs differ across different individuals, it is also true that beards and whiskers differ as well, and there is no reason to believe that shave tests are universally valid anymore than to believe that the HHT is valid when using different hairs to perform the tests. The YMMV argument therefore can also apply to shave tests as well as it does with the HHT.

The argument can further be made that the HHT performed properly by someone who knows how to perform it can be even more predictive of quality shaves than the shave test. This is because the ability of a razor to perform a shave is facilitated by all the preparation referred to above while the HHT can be performed with a single, unanchored hair unaffected by any kind of facilitating preparation. This makes it even more likely that a blade that will pass a properly performed HHT will also produce a close shave because the whiskers being shaved are anchored, prepared and not merely suspended in air. That the HHT is more difficult to be successful with than an actual shave only makes it more predictive of a quality shave result and not less predictive.

In addition, in spite of the fact that many don't put in the effort to learn how to perform the HHT and that hairs do, of course, differ among individuals, the HHT is essentially a more objective test for sharpness than the shave test. The shave test is less objective because it is not only affected by the preparation alluded to above but by variations in technique utilized by those doing the shaving. The result is a considerable amount of subjectivity, and that is one of the reasons we often see those new to shaving having difficulty and getting a poor shave out of a pro-honed razor, a razor that would easily pass the HHT.

I concur

Originally Posted by ace

In effect, the "Shave Test" is just an HHT with anchored hairs. Not only that, but those hairs, whiskers, are prepared for cutting by all the various preparations we read about here including hot showers, pre-shave oils, hot towel applications, lathering etc. While it is true that hairs differ across different individuals, it is also true that beards and whiskers differ as well, and there is no reason to believe that shave tests are universally valid anymore than to believe that the HHT is valid when using different hairs to perform the tests. The YMMV argument therefore can also apply to shave tests as well as it does with the HHT.

The argument can further be made that the HHT performed properly by someone who knows how to perform it can be even more predictive of quality shaves than the shave test. This is because the ability of a razor to perform a shave is facilitated by all the preparation referred to above while the HHT can be performed with a single, unanchored hair unaffected by any kind of facilitating preparation. This makes it even more likely that a blade that will pass a properly performed HHT will also produce a close shave because the whiskers being shaved are anchored, prepared and not merely suspended in air. That the HHT is more difficult to be successful with than an actual shave only makes it more predictive of a quality shave result and not less predictive.

In addition, in spite of the fact that many don't put in the effort to learn how to perform the HHT and that hairs do, of course, differ among individuals, the HHT is essentially a more objective test for sharpness than the shave test. The shave test is less objective because it is not only affected by the preparation alluded to above but by variations in technique utilized by those doing the shaving. The result is a considerable amount of subjectivity, and that is one of the reasons we often see those new to shaving having difficulty and getting a poor shave out of a pro-honed razor, a razor that would easily pass the HHT.

OTH, if edge gives the shave the person honing it wants without doing an HHT then the edge matches well with their prep and shaving technique. It might matter if you are honing for others though. Then again pro honed blades that I am almost positive passed a HHT might be found to have too harsh an edge for the person owning the razor. Had that razor been shave tested prior to going out then the harshness might have been discovered and corrected with say a different finisher. All kinds of ways to look at it.

Bob

How on earth can a test be more predictive than the thing it is testing for? Let's try to keep the conversation in the realms of logic, please.

James.

I'm reverting to my SERE training response:

You've given me a lot to think about...if you just put me back in my cell, I will use my time wisely.

No, seriously, great discussion.

I think the majority of guys who hear about the HHT are going to try it. If they hone their own they will either continue with it, either until they can do it, or become frustrated with it and give HHT up. One way or the other, if a man is getting a DFS out of his straight razor he will continue to shave with them regardless, with or without the HHT.