Thread: A logical progression for learning to hone

My suggestion:

Buy a razor, if you want one that's "shave ready" then get one, but it is not really necessary

Buy a hone, I would go for the Norton 4/8k, it is all you really need and it is realitavly inexpensive.

Buy a strop. A low cost Illinois will work fine

Read up on razor honing, there is plenty of information out there

Go to it. Take you time, it is more about patience than anything else

This is not rocket science, any one with average coordination and dexterity can do it.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I think for someone who wants to learn how to hone, the Norton 4K/8K or similar grit stones are essential. So is learning to set a bevel on a 1K or repair chips with a 220K. Above 8K, we have several good polishing stones and some great paste or spray media out there. The Norton, over time utilizing the pyramid method or Glen's get it where you can shave your arm on the 4K and then go to the 8K for 10 strokes are very consistent and repeatable methods of learning to hone. There is a ton of great information on the site, but the main thing to learn is still how to keep a blade flat on a stone, develop a nice steady stroke and not to use too much pressure. Learning and good practice are key!

+1 here

I agree with learning to hone by learning to touch up a razor first, great idea, that most don't follow..
But I do need to clarify, I learned to hone this way back in 1982 by using one stone and
re - re - re - freshing the edge...

But it wasn't until I found this site and the original Norton Pyramid threads the I learned how to actually "hone" a razor...
The Norton system that Lynn laid out, gives a very consistent repeatable way to getting a razor (in good shape) sharp and shave ready.. It was 6 months and a 100 razors before I felt confident enough in my results before I started to branch into progressive honing... This is where most fail they start trying different things to fast...
I also cant emphasize enough the ability to set a correct, even, sharp, bevel first... every single razor I get in to "fix" from a member here that can't get it shave ready has been a no bevel issue....

I guess the moral of the story is get a working system before you try new things...

I am NOT an expert at all, but have learned alot in a year plus of honing. I started out with a belgian blue and belgian yellow. Then added a shapton 1k to reset tough bevels and a yellow green escher for a different take on polishing from the belgian yellow. I got some very good edges on some tough blades, but felt something was missing.

Then the twelfth time I read Glenn's theory (1k resets, 4k sharpens, 8k above polishes) it dawned on me that I didn't have a real 4k for the most important stage of sharpening a razor - namely the sharpening stage. I PMed RandyDance and he confirmed 4k is key. So I ordered a shapton 4k and the tougher razors aren't so tough anymore and I feel like I have little extra something on the blades. Lately I've been going shap 1k, shap 4k, belgin yellow water only and am loving the results.

So my lesson would be don't go for the luxury first, but rather get the basics (1k, 4k, 8k) and worry about the fancy post 8k polishers when you get the basic functions down.

This is a difficult one. Having a trustworthy mentor surely is the way to go, but for many it’s a luxury out of reach.
For my personal learning curve, my main problem was eclecticism. I arrived at SRP, read a lot of different advice, in many threads that dealt about all sorts of hones and approaches.
I mixed them all up, translated them blindly to my Belgian natural combination hone... and got very lost. The one thing that kept me going was the knowledge that people had been successfully shaving from the very introduction of the modern straight razor (now old-fashioned) with edges honed on nothing but my equipment. I also purchased a book and a booklet about straight razor shaving and they both said it could be done, but offered only very fragmentary information about how it could be done.
Eventually I figured I needed to stick with the advice of one single source, from A to Z, just as one would do with a real mentor. I got my streak of luck, because I found two guys that spoke with one voice. It was in the heydays of Heavydutysg135 and Josh Earl in the Honing section. They were using my hones for honing and seemed to have good success with that. The night I started copying exactly what they told me, I successfully honed my first razor. The key to this story is that recipes for the Norton combo don’t work on the Belgian combo and vice versa. These two are probably as widely separated as it gets, but I reckon there are also differences between more related hones such as the Shaptons and the Naniwas. And then I’m not even talking about pastes.

So, AusTexShaver, no matter if you make your pupils start at the beginning or learn them the trade backwards, they’ll be fine, because they have you to guide them with a method that is trued and tested by your personal experience. Once they have made a good start, they can start to develop their own repertoire. Some will be happy with a simple setup and one method that works, and others will turn it into a hobby, buying more hones and fancy strops and pastes and they'll device alternative methods for the rest of their lives.

Bart.

Bart,

Thanks for that thoughtful post! I hadn't considered the ramifications of mixing different type stones so I guess I'll have to include that in my "lesson plans" too.

I'll probably stick with the "backwards" approach. I've taught a few people how to shoot pool and after you cover the basics of stance, grip, stroke, etc. you generally start with straight in shots. For me teaching bevel setting would be like starting out teaching bank shots...that and in these days of instant gratification it's always nice if you can produce good results in a minimum of time to keep the frustration level low.

I don't consider myself a honemeister by any stretch, first off. But I've sharpened a fair number of razors, for myself and at the request of others, and seem to be able to make a razor sharp enough to shave with.

I shaved with, and then tried to hone, a factory Dovo before I'd ever heard of this forum. Over the last couple of years I have done quite a bit of trial and error. I have shamelessly stolen techniques from all sort of people... keeping a trick there, picking up a new piece of equipment here, until I had assembled a functioning set of steps and tools that could produce a razor that shaved well for me. The process took a long time. I have tried nearly every honing technique I've heard of, and have hated many of them.

They key is to find what works FOR YOU. An interesting question was asked the other day, "when do you quit being a newb?" Someone (can't remember who) said, "when you quit mindlessly doing whatever you're told and do things your own way."

I think that sums it up pretty well. Even when you've got your own technique, though, always be mindful of learning new stuff. After a couple years of honing, I still learn new stuff all the time. At the last DFW get together I got to see John Crowley (who I would consider to be a true honemeister) sharpening a razor. Some of the things he did were the way I did it, some were not. When I got home that night, I tried some of those things out; some worked well for me, others didn't. So I had a few new tricks in my repetoire, and my razors got a little sharper.

There's an old story that gets told in shooting circles that illustrates this principle well: "One time a seasoned competition shooter and a rookie were having a cigarette between stages. The expert knew 100 things about shooting. The rookie knew only 10. After they were done smoking and talking, the rookie still knew 10 things, but the expert knew 110."

No matter how much I have learned (and it's not much) there will always ALWAYS be someone better who I can learn from.

+1 on learning to do it your way and NEVER stop learning!

That's why when I show someone how to do something I show them the basics but don't get too fussy over minor details...such as when I show someone how to shave I show them all the most usual grips but then leave it up to them to figure out which one works on what part of their face.

I've honed 4 razors, my first was a restore in every sense of the word, and the other three were by no means shave ready. I cheated, and didn't know how hard it would be to do what I did, but I dove in, kept into it, and how have three shaving razors, the other was done for a friend who I'm building a strop for. I'm enjoying the learning curve, and following the DIY motto, I own my razors.
Then again, I pick up this type of skill faster than most people I know, and I would not assume that my method would work for most people. Plus I found this site at just the right time, and this massive resource has helped me so much. gotta know the rules before you can break them!

Well, I'm the guy on the other end of the equation, the one who is just learning, but I think my experiences might be useful to you. So far I've gotten 5 razors up and running. I don't know how your friend feels about honing, but part of the appeal of straits to me was honing, so I didn't have any issues with learning this skill and the problems that I knew I'd hit, but perhaps he might.

I think the best method is the start from scratch approach-I think that a newbie and a barber hone are gonna result in a dull razor, it certainly would have for me when I started out- I even managed to de shave ready my razor with my first stropping. It is a steeper learning curve, but when the process was demystified, I became much more comfortable with razor maintenance. Before this I felt there was a big old sword of Damocles hanging over my head every time I shaved, stropped, or considered trying to touch up a razor.

Make sure that he gets a Norton 4k/8k, I tried to get by with just a DMT 8k dia plate since they supposedly cut so fast, and ended up taking forever and a day to hone my first razors . Once I got the Norton and started with the pyramiding honing was much easier.

One other thing, as stated above, if your friend is experienced at honing knives and such he will have alot to unlearn. For example, the no/ultra-low pressure thing took me a while to get down-I'd space out to lala land while honing and come back to find myself pressing the razor into the stone like it was a knife.

Well, I'm a knife collector whog ot interesting in straight razors. I bought one of the white handled double arrow razors off of ebay, grabbed my water stones and honed and shaved and honed and shaved until I felt that I could get a good shave. I did a lot of research though, lots of youtube videos and a fait bit of reading. I switched completely from Mach 3 to straight razor in one fail swoop. Luckily it wasn't too much of a fail.