Thread: A logical progression for learning to hone

One of the reasons I was able to jump into honing was because I was already a knife collector, already had a fair understanding of metallurgy and sharpening and honing and I already had a 1k, 4k and 8k japanese water stone. If I didn't already know all of that, I doubt I would have dived into it the way I did.

Lots of responses and at the core they're all pretty similar.

There are really only two simple things to learn
(1) the motion itself i.e. uniform and consistent strokes of flat razor with no pressure
(2) when to stop, and if applicable move to the next grit

You have to learn both to be successful and there are plenty of approaches to it. The easiest way is Norton pyramids as a touch up of a previously honed blade - the equipment and the method is very consistent, so the only variable is the motion. If the Norton is too expensive a barbers hone should be almost as good for the task at hand.
Then to actually progress beyond maintenance to honing, you'll have to expand to the lower grits, and that's just addressing point (2) as presumably one is already proficient with (1).

There will always people who like to make it unnecessarily much harder than it should be, but that's just how it is - some value the satisfaction of accomplishment, others pragmatism.

Originally Posted by gugi

There will always people who like to make it unnecessarily much harder than it should be, but that's just how it is - some value the satisfaction of accomplishment, others pragmatism.

Gugi you are an amazing philosopher!

Can I use that line?

While I realize there are two (or more) sides to any discussion I was not trying to start a Ford vs Chevy feud but rather get opinions on the shortest path to enlightenment.

Originally Posted by AusTexShaver

While I certainly agree with you about the difficulty of knowing what's happening at the finer grits, it's been my experience that two of the hardest things to learn by someone who's just starting out are when it's necessary to use a 1k and when to stop using it and move on to the higher grits.

I would also dispute the "less time to learn bad habits" as it's not only common but necessary to use a little pressure (OK OK sometimes more than a little ) on the 1k if you're dealing with very dull blade or one such as a wedge that needs LOTS of metal removed before you transition from the removing metal phase to the actual bevel setting phase. In addition there are advanced strokes to learn (like doing circles) to get the bevel as perfect as it can be for the entire length of the blade to make your life easier on the higher grits.

If you want to see the ultimate in frustration give a new guy (who is just to the point of having a little success with getting a perfectly straight blade sharp with the Norton) a totally dull badly warped blade and tell him to have at it. But you don't really have to do that as you can read about that experience on this forum at quite frequent intervals.

I never do circles so I'm not sure what or why you want to do that. Nor is there a removing metal phase that is separate from bevel setting. using some pressure is awesome. it is easier imo to learn the strokes when you can apply a little pressure to keep the blade on the stone. purposefully offering a warped blade to a newb is just mean The way i see it. Rather than the ultimate in frustration, i think you would see the ultimate epiphany

Originally Posted by kevint

purposefully offering a warped blade to a newb is just mean

Dovo has been doing that for years...as well as including a bevel that doesn't match the spine.

Originally Posted by AusTexShaver

Dovo has been doing that for years...as well as including a bevel that doesn't match the spine.

touche' amigo. I'm more a vintage fan so i wouldn't know

Ok, I feel I would like to chime in here. I am a very new straight razor shaver. I have received three razors thus far, that I like, and I am happy with them all. One was from OLD_SCHOOL on this site, another from Ken at RupRazor, and my Henckels from a member on B&B. All give me good shaves, but all feel different.

I am now thinking about stones because I know the day will come when I will need to use one. I also have a strop with Cr0 from Ken. One thing I can say, as a new guy, is that every time I read threads on honing I become incredibly confused. There is just so much information on honing that your mind becomes clogged with everyone's different methods and opinions. I read you can set a bevel on a coticule, then I read you need a 1200K and up to set a bevel and sharpen, then I read all you need is a barber's hone and that's it unless you're setting bevels on old blades. To get right to the point, it's very confusing and I have no idea what to take to heart as a method for me. The only thing is that I know I don't want to spend 1,000$ on stones, that's for sure.

I plan on using my .5 Cr0 strop when my razors start to pull. Maybe I will get a Baber's hone to keep the edges also. Isn't that enough for me if I am not going to chip my razors or set bevels on Ebay razors? I plan on buying blades shave ready since they're always on here anyway and I trust the guys that sell on here. I also see that a yellow Coticule is 8k but is not the same as the norton 8k side. The coticule is a finishing/polishing stone. Is this true? They're both 8k.

I really liked the idea of just getting a Swaty barber's hone off ebay and being set for.....a long time with my shave ready razors. Am I now wrong/incorrect for thinking that I can get away with this? If I can not find a barber's hone can I use something that is 12K or 16K for the same purpose? Is it true that you can polish and touch up a razor that just needs a little touch up after a month on a norton 4k/8k too? Would you do a pyramid with both sides to do this? 8k seems rough to me to finishing a touch up on.

As you can see this is how it feels when you're a week or two into SR shaving and you see all these things about stones. It makes your head spin.

As you can see this is how it feels when you're a week or two into SR shaving and you see all these things about stones. It makes your head spin.
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I felt the same way until I was lucky enough to watch an experienced person hone razors. I therefore bought Norton hones and a strop system for pastes. I have been able to take dull and chipped razors to shave ready with the Norton 4000/8000 and pasted strops, nothing else. I do want a Chinese 12k or Escher hone for in between 8000 and the pastes.

I watch the water in front of the hones while honing to see when to move on to the next higher grit. The blade has to push water in front of the entire blade length to prove the bevel is set at 4000. Then at 8000 you have to watch the water again. When it pushes water the entire length you can move on to the next higher grit. The water is proving the blade is contoured to that grit hone. If there are hollow-days in the water, that part of the blade is not sharp yet. You have to continue until water is pushed the entire length of the blade. This works for me and is pretty easy to understand. Hope this helps someone and if it is wrong, please tell me.

Dean65's post above is a fantastic guide. It is words of experience.

Rick

I am a self taught honer, I learned a lot from this guy's vids: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I hope that helps you make a decision about honing.

Disburden,

I am a self-taught honer and though I am sure my experience with knives helped, this guy's videos were very informative and helped me a lot: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Maybe they could help you too. Good luck in your decision.