Thread: A logical progression for learning to hone

I would like to ask the more experienced honemeisters a question that one of my proteges put to me and after some thought I'm not sure I handed out the best advice.

The question was what is the best way to learn how to hone?

My answer was pretty much the way I learned. Get yourself a shave ready razor and a barber hone...and if posible someone who can show you how to properly use it. Then after learning touchups go to a 4/8k and learn how to restore a slightly duller razor that would take forever on a barber hone...and after success with that then if you are so inclined get a 1k and start doing some "restoration" work.

My thought process was something along the line of by starting with a barber hone and a shave ready blade you learn what "sharp" feels like and have a pretty forgiving stone to learn how to return it to adequate sharpness...and when I first started I was doing weekly "tuneups" because of my flawed stropping/shaving techniques so I cleared that hurdle pretty quick.

I felt my answer was somewhat validated by all the posts I've read here that go something like "I've just bought a brand new razor and a Norton 4/8k stone and I need help!"...but on the other hand there are several posts from guys who outfitted themselves with a full range of grits and some eBay razors and somehow managed to teach themselves while having fun in the process.

What say the experts...wade around a little in the shallow end first or jump in with both feet?

I'm certainly no expert but it doesn't sound that bad to start with the Barber hone and work your way back to the 1k

I started with a BBW/coticule combo and got some DMT's working back to the DMT-D6C. I honed out some chips (already in the razor) and dings (minor accidents) and tried learning to hone on a wedge (bad idea).
Now I'm pretty comfortable with the hones and I can get razors to shaving condition.

I think the important thing is to start out with a shaveready razor and learn to shave first. then learn how to hone and test (TPT TNT, hair popping test)

Maarten

Originally Posted by mlangstr

I'm certainly no expert but it doesn't sound that bad to start with the Barber hone and work your way back to the 1k

The odds of having to set a new bevel soon are fairly remote. As already mentioned start with a finishing hone to freshen your edge, not put a new one on it. If, however, you have dinged the edge you might have to put a new edge on it, so the 1K would be needed.

Originally Posted by AusTexShaver

The question was what is the best way to learn how to hone?

IME and starting with the requisite,"I'm no expert but", I would say I'm not a neophyte either. I tried to learn to hone straight razors back in the 1980s having bought a Swaty and three coticules from old barber's. One of them gave me a few minutes of explanation and a brief demonstration of how to hone a razor. I gave it up in frustration after a brief period of trying to get razors sharp and to get shaves equal to a Gillette 'Good News' disposable.

Fast forward to Feburary of last year. I had bought the Norton starter kit and Lynn's DVD. I was reading the forum and with a case of RAD getting a quantity of razors to practice on and to shave with. I was making some progress in my personal odyssey but I had a long way to go. I had the good fortune to notice a forum member who I consider to be a bona fide honemiester mention that he lived within 30 miles of me.

I sent him a PM and he invited me over. At that stage of the game I was still feeling my way and wouldn't attempt to hone a 'good' razor for fear of messing it up. On my first visit to The Topher's house I brought a Goldedge I had gotten off of the bay. It was in very nice shape but literally dull as a butter knife. Chris set the bevel and proceeded to hone it and strop it to HHT sharpness in 45 minutes.

On that occasion I learned techniques that I might have never picked up on my own. A few more visits to The Topher's house and I was off to a good start and tackling any razor that came my way without fear of ruining it and with a progressively greater level of success. The key to my learning to hone has been the same as my learning to become a journeyman ironworker, a certified welder, an expert carpet installer and finally a professional tattooist.

In all of the above the tutelage of experts along with the opportunity for plenty of practice and most of all the desire. Between Chris (The Topher), Lynn, Randydance, the contributions of the members of this forum and my own efforts, I don't know if I am "an expert", as I am still learning, but I will do until one comes along.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't know if I am "an expert", as I am still learning, but I will do until one comes along.

Anybody with as many hones as you have has GOT to be an expert!

Maybe I should have worded it differently...it appears there are fewer experts here than I thought.

I am impatient and went from.."Ohh i will just use my pasted stop and send it out when it needs honed" to... buying a set of norton stones(220/1k/4k/8k), CrO, and checking the 'Bay daily for goodies.

I have a problem. Reading everything in the wiki multiple times and watching the various honing videos put out by lynn and everyone helped.

I'm sure a visit with one of the masters on this board would help even more.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I'm sure a visit with one of the masters on this board would help even more.

There's nothing like learning from a pro. I'm kind of a DIY kind of guy and over the years have self taught myself a lot of things but I still get a laugh over some of the mistakes I've made...like the time I read a few books and taught myself how to sail and then learned a few years later how wrong I had been doing a couple things.

It's also a lot easier to learn proper form than to undo bad habits and less time consuming than spending years to see what works best.

Back in the eighties an old barber told me to use the Swaty dry and never do more then 3 or 4 round trips. He took a coticule and applied lather to it with his Lather King hot lather machine and demonstrated the strokes for honing a razor.

He stressed only using the weight of the blade and only a limited amount of strokes. He then showed me how to strop and said,"You can overstrop a razor". He never mentioned flattening the stones or anything about setting a bevel or magnification.

So I was doomed to failure if I followed his teaching and I did. In his defense I would say that what he was telling me although wrong was his honest opinion and I guess he was assuming that I would be using shave ready razors.

Having Chris, A.K.A. The Topher, show me in person how much pressure and the type of strokes he used in setting a bevel was something I don't think I ever would have picked up on my own. His technique with various strokes on the hone and stropping were also of a great benefit to me.

He wanted me to test shave that Goldedge he honed for me there and then. So watching me lather he gave me some tips on that which have improved my shaves dramatically. Just as working with journeyman ironworkers or carpet mechanics and tattooists enabled me to improve my own skills through observation the chance to see a honemiester in action was worth its weight in gold.

I think for someone who wants to learn how to hone, the Norton 4K/8K or similar grit stones are essential. So is learning to set a bevel on a 1K or repair chips with a 220K. Above 8K, we have several good polishing stones and some great paste or spray media out there. The Norton, over time utilizing the pyramid method or Glen's get it where you can shave your arm on the 4K and then go to the 8K for 10 strokes are very consistent and repeatable methods of learning to hone. There is a ton of great information on the site, but the main thing to learn is still how to keep a blade flat on a stone, develop a nice steady stroke and not to use too much pressure. Learning and good practice are key!

If you look at the instructions when you can find them for Barber Hones, you will see that they were meant to refresh a razor and that they normally say 4-5 strokes to do that. Honing is much more than this considering the different types, styles and shapes of razor and all the varieties of steels. The more razors you hone, the more you learn to hone. The more honing media you experiment with the more you learn to hone.

I have seen people, still, who do not own anything but a Norton 4K/8K for honing their razors and they feel that there is no need for anything else as they get good shaves and this works for their razors.

Where I see the problems daily when honing or fixing people razors is that they use hundreds of strokes and uneven pressure and end up with bevels on top of bevels and uneven spines and all kinds of interesting stuff. Everytime I see sandpaper scratches on an edge or blade, I know I need to go from scratch on that razor to repair the deep scratch marks, set a new bevel and re-hone the razor.

I think the biggest problem out there not unlike shaving is that people think because they have honed knives or tools forever and shaved since they were 12 that it's gonna be very easy and expect it to be. "The problem CAN'T be me". But a razors edge is a very delicate instrument and with a little patience and experimentation, you CAN learn to hone with the best of them, even if you are just honing for your own satisfaction. The search for that absolute perfect or just a little better shave resulting from that just a little better edge is never ending.

A sit down session with an experienced honer is always highly recommended and can shorten the learning curve a ton.

Have fun,

Lynn

A sit down session with an experienced honer is always highly recommended and can shorten the learning curve a ton.
Have fun, Lynn[/quote]

With above in mind does anyone know of anyone in the New Orleans area??