Thread: Knot Sources Pros Cons

Wrong. Several European brush manufactures source badger hair from China (its sole source these days), but make their own knots. And, as stated previously, that can make for a dramatic difference in quality and performance.

Originally Posted by MikeT

I also like TGN knots. Recently purchased more of them and decided to wait on the other high end companies suggested.. twice the price, I was a bit shocked.
Do you have experience with the high end knots?
Is there a noticeable difference?

The only high end badger knot that I have is a Simpsons Manchurian if you discount an SOC 2 band badger brush and a Muhle Retro Silver tip badger brush. Even though I was surprised at how much the feel of the TGN 2 band Finest reminded me of the Simpsons Manchurian while lathering they are not identical. There is a difference and whether it is worth the price differential is a personal choice.

I am sure part of the difference is explained away in the difference in the standard of living between China and the EU. One has better working conditions, better regulation and enforcement of environmental laws and so on which add to the final cost of the product. OTH I have no idea how much of the price differential is accounted for by that and how much is accounted for by the cache of buying a recognized high end product. In other words paying for the name and bragging rights that go with it.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

I have no idea how much of the price differential is accounted for by that and how much is accounted for by the cache of buying a recognized high end product. In other words paying for the name and bragging rights that go with it.

It is fairly negligible for the small brush makers. Ie you will not get rich making brushes, but you can make a living. And that is about it. Things may be different for really large manufacturers like Simpson, but I doubt it.

Originally Posted by RobinK

It is fairly negligible for the small brush makers. Ie you will not get rich making brushes, but you can make a living. And that is about it. Things may be different for really large manufacturers like Simpson, but I doubt it.

To know with any degree certainty you'd need a peek at the "real" books which not many people are privileged to see. We are all just making a living including the workers in China. It depends on what your definition of making a living is.

Bob

A hand made handle, and a hand made knot.... now that would be something wouldn't it....

Originally Posted by HARRYWALLY

A hand made handle, and a hand made knot.... now that would be something wouldn't it....

Absolutely. That is why people buy Shavemac (all handles) or Thäter (wood and exotic materials) brushes...

Originally Posted by RobinK

It is fairly negligible for the small brush makers. Ie you will not get rich making brushes, but you can make a living. And that is about it. Things may be different for really large manufacturers like Simpson, but I doubt it.

I'm not so sure. Looking at the video of Simpsons knote being made gives you a very good idea as to just how much manpower is required to weigh, tie and trim the knot - not a great deal. That tells me that whether you are working in a low wage country or a developed European country, there is not a great deal of labour cost in the knot itself. Given that the quality of badger hair should be consistent - I'm not talking about whether some is dyed - then it seems to me that you pay a hefty premium for buying a knot made in Europe. I base that on looking at the Shavemac site for knot only.

Originally Posted by MikeT

Do you have experience with the high end knots?
Is there a noticeable difference?

First when it comes to brushes it is a very much an YMMV thing from person to person.

That being said, I have experience with some of the high end knots, Thater silver tip and two band, Shavemac two band, Morris&Forndran heritage, Paladin PK-47 blonde badger.

Thatter Silvertip has too little backbone for my taste. Two band Thater is very dense , very soft tips, does not have any scrub, high quality knot.
Shavemac is very good, but mine was set too high and it has a tad less backbone than I like, still very good.
Morris& Forndran , are different depending on the build I believe. So far the knot with most backbone and no scritch at all that I have seen. The knot also has a very nice scrub.
Paladin uses M&F knots, mine was the TSN LE brush with fan knot. The knot had just a little bit of scritch no backbone, did not like it that much.

My main experience is with 28mm TGN Finest knots. The ones I have are right up there in terms of density, and feel IMO. The knots have a good amount of scrub (for me) and no scritch that I can detect. Overall very nice knots for people that want to try Finest badger.

I can't comment on the other sizes of the TGN finest knots as I have not experienced them. I only had a 26mm knot and I did not like it it had too much scritch when set low, and it was too floppy when set high enough for no scritch.

I have tried the silver tip TGN but they are just like mops for me, super soft with no backbone at all. They are just not my cup of tea.

This is some good information. I will be saving up to buy a couple knots from these high end knot manufacturers to see if my shaving experience and the quality of my brushes can improve... I'm sure they will. So far as I've said TGN and a few other manufacturers are my only experience. I don't claim otherwise and I seek to broaden my knowledge.
Some good points on craftsmanship.. the knots being put together properly from the beginning so as to have no real need for trimming. Good point. Quality control in the selection of hairs, I'm sure is a factor.
Within the minutiae of details involved, the intricacies of the process, i know that it can be compared to other industries. Cars are a good one. My Audi is manufactured with higher standards than the Kia I owned, also better than the Impala I owned.. BUT let's not delude ourselves... all three cars run on gasoline, don't speak to me about the ethics of THAT industry. It's all connected. Do you have a single product made in China in your household? If so you support the government that is a part of the abuses... do we boycott the country completely? Only support companies that are ethical? Either way it is so much more complicated than that. And history shows that there is a slower less bloody path to progress and a quicker though more bloody path. Both ways include suffering. This is a generalisation but an accurate one.
Style is also a silly concept to bring to this thread. Looking at the knot, perhaps a more expensive knot has a better shape? The colours scheme? Uniformity of the colour pattern? These are relative to a person's idea of what looks good. That has something to do with price yes, but that was not the reason for this thread.. Searching for an up to date list of manufacturers that have high standards of quality control is the idea here.
Bringing forward points of ethics and style only prove that this is a loaded subject and that some people are too emotionally compromised to stay on topic.
Thanks to all those who brought forward names of companies that they maintain are good ones, and the details of their experience with them. I hope to purchase knots from all of them to see for myself.
All of that said... I am now seriously considering more factors involved in the subject of badger hair knots.
Thanks again guys,
Mike T.

What most fail to realize is that Badgers in china are vermin,they destroy farmland.
They are killed,skinned and eaten,is no waste.