Thread: What are we coming to or I don't believe it!

No, our Constituion is very clear about what our federal government is tasked with. The rest is up to state government, allowing the people to have more choice in the matter.

From the industrial revolution to the 50's and 60's, what I believe the people didn't recognize is that a free market economy works both ways. The consumer has a large say in exactly what the cost of things will be. The same is true of workers... If a job is paying too little, the employer won't be able to fill the position. If no one is willing to work for a particular amount, the going rate will eventually even itself out.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Don't think bad of me Crouton,,,I own an AK.

John, that's next on my list. Just gotta convince SWMBO

By the way, John, you have the most uncanny knack for being able to lighten the mood.

Originally Posted by Tack

*sigh*

............................................______ __
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?........................... ...........................,
.................../.................................................. .........,}
................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..}
.............../.................................................. .,:"........./
..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|............ ..`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,.............. .............`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_......... .._,-%.......`
...................................,



rs,
Tack

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN

Originally Posted by crouton976

No, our Constituion is very clear about what our federal government is tasked with. The rest is up to state government, allowing the people to have more choice in the matter.

From the industrial revolution to the 50's and 60's, what I believe the people didn't recognize is that a free market economy works both ways. The consumer has a large say in exactly what the cost of things will be. The same is true of workers... If a job is paying too little, the employer won't be able to fill the position. If no one is willing to work for a particular amount, the going rate will eventually even itself out.

Bah - that's only true in a environment of 7% or less unemployment. And in an environment where there isn't people willing to break the law to fill those positions.

Originally Posted by earcutter

I am not trying to upset you crouton - but seriously... look at the indexes. The standard of living rates, life expectancy etc, etc have all gone up, up, up since the 1840's.

Moreover the last time I checked this was still a democracy so claiming that you have no influence on your taxes is... heck! If you don't like voting - give to lobby groups! Look at how powerful the NRA is!

Correction...This is not a democracy..........It is a republic. Maybe a slip of the wording I know but some of what is wrong with everything is lack of understanding the basics. We hear "fighting for democracy so much we are starting to believe it. My new bumper sticker would read " NUKE democracy !"

Originally Posted by crouton976

Gugi, Spendur, I'm unsure if your two previous comments are directed at me. If not, then disregard this post.

I wasn't but I could still address your concerns

The founding fathers did not believe in every "person being able to decide for themselves what say they have about living their life as they see fit". Some of them did, some of them didn't hence they compromised approximately half-way for money and electoral purposes to count slaves as 60% of non-slaves. Some slave-owning founding fathers made pretty good money off the freedom of other human beings which they considered as property - obviously they could've freed those slaves and hired them as paid workers if they thought it's the right or the more profitable way to go, but they didn't.

Your problem is not with the amount of money you pay in taxes - it is with how that money is being spent, and yes you have very little control over it. Why am I saying this - because you are making a big issue of being forced to pay for somebody's health insurance while you don't seem to mind nearly as much being forced to pay for somebody's really expensive health care. Or you don't make a big deal of being forced to pay for what in this country is called 'defense'. You also don't make a big deal of subsidized mortgages, education, or child rearing.

So, that's just the usual politics - everybody wants to keep the stuff they like and discard the stuff they do not like.

Since you posted your income, take a look at the tax distribution - you are at about break-even point where you get more than what you pay in taxes, a little bit below, i.e. you get a bit more than you pay for. You also live in a moocher state - i.e. your state gets more from the rest of the country than it pays in taxes. I live in NY and we pay more in federal taxes than we get back.

If you are really serious about the federal government being too big - may be elect local politicians who will run your state with the resources you have without taking from the rest of us. I keep hearing complaints about big government and how hard it is to run a business and people mean the federal government, yet when they give me specific problems the big costs and red tape are almost always from the local government.

The truth is that there are things that are better done by a government, and there are things that are better done by free market. The smart thing is to figure out which is which or when a mixture of both is appropriate and do that. Everything else is blind ideology.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

Correction...This is not a democracy..........It is a republic. Maybe a slip of the wording I know but some of what is wrong with everything is lack of understanding the basics. We hear "fighting for democracy so much we are starting to believe it. My new bumper sticker would read " NUKE democracy !"

LOL! I see what you are saying - and if you want accuracy, then preface it with American - "Nuke American Democracy." I don't think other nations would find the humor in a simple nuke democracy .

Originally Posted by crouton976

From the industrial revolution to the 50's and 60's, what I believe the people didn't recognize is that a free market economy works both ways. The consumer has a large say in exactly what the cost of things will be. The same is true of workers... If a job is paying too little, the employer won't be able to fill the position. If no one is willing to work for a particular amount, the going rate will eventually even itself out.

Well, that's the exact logic for the growing economic disparity. You make free global market, then you see certain jobs in US become less well paid. It starts with low skilled ones and moves up the ladder. As you know productivity has grown enormously in the last decades and the compensation (yes, I realize I'm using a word reserved for those who aren't yet affected by the issue) hasn't kept pace. Thats what you have with capitalism - the capital trumps everything else. Extrapolate a bit further down the road and you approach a society where only those few who have certain amount of capital can have any resemblance of life. At which point you have a revolution and a dramatic rewrite of the social contract.

Originally Posted by gugi

Well, that's the exact logic for the growing economic disparity. You make free global market, then you see certain jobs in US become less well paid. It starts with low skilled ones and moves up the ladder. As you know productivity has grown enormously in the last decades and the compensation (yes, I realize I'm using a word reserved for those who aren't yet affected by the issue) hasn't kept pace. Thats what you have with capitalism - the capital trumps everything else. Extrapolate a bit further down the road and you approach a society where only those few who have certain amount of capital can have any resemblance of life. At which point you have a revolution and a dramatic rewrite of the social contract.

Thank you Gugi for that comment. There is nothing wrong with capitalism per se but the form it has evolved to now is virulent and destructive seemingly not having a social conscience.

Bob