Thread: What are we coming to or I don't believe it!

Originally Posted by crouton976

Gugi, you really don't know me nor do you know exactly what my beliefs are.

I don't think I've been assuming anything about your personal beliefs, if it seems like that I apologize for not expressing myself correctly. The last thing I want is to imply anything about anybody - I am not partial to making judgments about motives or creating conspiracy theories. I try to state my arguments as directly and clearly as possible.

Of course, you are absolutely right that as long as the federal tax rates are universal it is all constitutional. But this country does not live with the constitution of the 19th century - as you noted there are plenty of amendments, and all of those were passed through the proper process, i.e. ratified by 75% of the states. So you can't blame it on a political party.

The reality however is not simple black & white - it never has been. Say you pass a federal subsidy (tax credit or direct) to peanut farmers and it will apply to every peanut farmer in NY, of which there are almost none. Or you pass a tax exemption on specific trading - it will apply to every trader in Georgia the same way it applies to traders on Wall Street. In other words you can trivially transfer federal money to specific localities without running afoul of the constitution.
See, US is a federation, not confederation but you have systematic issue of certain states being subsidized by others. It's not about NY paying more taxes than GA because it is larger or makes more products. It's about GA being economically dependent on NY for its standard of living. Year after year people in Georgia pay certain amount of taxes to the federal government and the federal government provides services worth more than the money they've gotten. That extra money comes from my state because we get less worth in services than we pay in taxes.
One other example - Alaska, the biggest moocher. They get a lot of money from their natural resources, which they proceed to distribute to their people. Instead of putting them towards say building infrastructure. Instead they have all these other states pay for building their infrastructure.

I guess one view is that a fool and their money are soon parted, and if certain states allow others to get more than their fair share of benefits, the problem is of those dumb ones.

Part of being a society and a nation is to share stuff and help each other. I just don't like when things get politicized and people cry foul over stuff that helps others, while not minding at all the stuff they get themselves.
The worst is when people ask the same thing for themselves when they deny it to others (e.g. disaster relief - last year politicians from the middle of the country who keep taking federal money for their areas year after year decided to deny money when other states ended up in their situation).

Again, I'm not arguing against you, or whatever beliefs you may have - I am arguing for addressing the actual problems, and for applying the same standards to the same situations. You will probably notice that I have no interest in addressing ideological banter and refuse to engage with posts that fall into that category. If I'm quoting something from your posts, it is because I think it's a rational argument worthy of discussion.

You all know that around 100 years ago folks were sitting around having these exact same discussions. One side saying the factory owners were entitled to it all and the employees should be lucky to get a wage no matter how meager. One political party had the attitude it was all about the entrepreneur who risks it all and either makes it or doesn't and if he does he's the king. The working man who won't take such risks is just a slug who should be lucky to get what he does.

Everything is a cycle and I have no doubt as things continue to slide the day will come when folks will have had enough and Unions will make a comeback. You can count on it.

I didn't say I had no influence. I said I have very little influence.

The progression of our technologies is the main driver of what has driven prices down.

Subsidizing wealth is an inferior form of economic stabilization. It's also no way to run a country. If it is, I think we'd still have the U.S.S.R around to prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by crouton976

I didn't say I had no influence. I said I have very little influence.

The progression of our technologies is the main driver of what has driven prices down.

Subsidizing wealth is an inferior form of economic stabilization. It's also no way to run a country. If it is, I think we'd still have the U.S.S.R around to prove me wrong.

Seriously - I am not trying to irritate you but do you not understand the difference between communist Russia that told people what and how many widgets to build vs America that does not BUT might make sure that no one is doing things that cause citizens to become injured?

I mean wow man... Today's America and communist Russia are such different economic systems that you even put them in the same sentence is ludicrous!

Every not-for-profit in America is subsidized. Including churches, child care agency's, etc, etc, What's wrong with that?

The road we seem to be headed down indicates to me that we may not be far off from communist Russia.

What I'm trying to say is that a free market economy will always trump a socialized one. It is better balanced and more efficient.

Originally Posted by crouton976

The road we seem to be headed down indicates to me that we may not be far off from communist Russia.

What I'm trying to say is that a free market economy will always trump a socialized one. It is better balanced and more efficient.

Perhaps - but no regulations has been proven to be an absolute nightmare for working people - people like you. History shows that to be true from the industrial revolution all the way to the 50's and 60's.

The government is tasked to help and protect its citizens.

Everything is wrong with that IF it is not voluntary.

I should never, and I mean never, be forced to pay into a system by means of force. Our Constituion limits exactly what taxes, and therefore subsidies, the federal government can be involved in. Beyond that, the States are supposed to fill the gaps, allowing us the opportunity to move to a state we feel is more in line with our own views.

What our system has become is so far off base from that it's not funny.

Don't think bad of me Crouton,,,I own an AK.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Don't think bad of me Crouton,,,I own an AK.

John, that's next on my list. Just gotta convince SWMBO