Thread: The Ukraine situation

Funny, Earcutter-I was thinking the same thing just yesterday after hearing the President's warnings to Russia. We all remember the "red line" warnings to Syria, and look how that's turned out. As much as I'd like to see Assad dragged out of his palace and dealt with in the streets of Damascus, and as much as I think Putin is a posturing idiot, personally, given the problems we currently have domestically, I don't think we ought to get involved in any military entanglements that don't affect us directly.

Interesting to note that the Crimea is an autonomous state within the Ukraine. Sevastopol, Crimea's capital, is the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Makes you wonder if after all the sabre rattling and the dust settles whether the Crimea will separate to be in the Russian sphere of influence. If that does happen will that be enough to mollify the Russians? Lets just hope it does not get past the sabre rattling stage and turn into open warfare.

Bob

Yes sanctions will not work as to many east and west Europe nations have to many interest in Russia then add to that all the Asia Nation that have ties. No sanctions would be followed by enough nations to be effective and may actually make Russia stronger.

Russia may no longer be a super power but it is a large regional power (with a large army) and a world economic power that it can effectively do what it wants as long as it does not directly affect a core eu state, Japan, Us, Canada, aus or china.

Originally Posted by Castel33

Yes sanctions will not work as to many east and west Europe nations have to many interest in Russia then add to that all the Asia Nation that have ties. No sanctions would be followed by enough nations to be effective and may actually make Russia stronger.

Russia may no longer be a super power but it is a large regional power (with a large army) and a world economic power that it can effectively do what it wants as long as it does not directly affect a core eu state, Japan, Us, Canada, aus or china.

As far as Power,I think Russia is on par with the U.S. we can both knock each other out in a heartbeat.
Hopefully our mis guided american leaders do not start another cold war.
Obamba needs to back off,JMO

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

As far as Power,I think Russia is on par with the U.S. we can both knock each other out in a heartbeat.
Hopefully our mis guided american leaders do not start another cold war.
Obamba needs to back off,JMO

There is another big difference. The Russian society is not controlled by huggy feely thinking media as much as the US. Russia does not shy away from high body count. Not in enemy casualties and not in their own, and there will be no domestic political backlash if a couple hundred people snuff it. If there is one thing Russians know how to do, it is to die well, according to many historians.
Russia will not attack the US or the EU directly. They have nothing to win.

The former soviet states otoh, they are not afraid to pounce. And the thing is, there is a huge pro russian population there, which is why the country has been a political hotbed for the last decade. Russia was happy enough with yanukovich because he was pro russian. Now there has been a minor revolution and the current leadership of the day is pro EU. Russia has sheltered yanukovich, who still has the support of a large part of the population. Putin is hoping that he can flip the balance again.

The Russian parliament vote is a joke btw. Is there anyone who doubts that Tzar Putin rules Russia with an Iron fist?

One other factor to consider is the historical ties between Russia, Syria, and Iran. I could see this triad/alliance trying to assert its muscle as a regional power in some ways, with Putin as its required egomaniac. Assad already knows that he can slaughter his people wholesale with impunity (and who wants to assist "the rebels" when many of them are apparently Al Qaeda affiliates?). Yet another geopolitical s**t-storm in which there are no easy choices. And if that's not complicated enough, we still have NATO allies in Eastern Europe who are no doubt growing nervous.

I am going to go along with what Bruno said, as a matter of fact I will go one step further. If we look at what Vladmir has done in recent years we will notice that he is almost done putting the bulk of the old Soviet Republic back together either thru economic strangleholds or military intervention.

Just for kicks, as soon as Vlad feels comfortable I would put money that Aberdijan is next thing on the shopping list. Oil and gold fields.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Why cannot the U.S keep our nose out of this crap?
Kerry is going to Kiev,is talk of a U.S military response,thats just wonderfull,just what we need

You could most certainly stay out of it, but the cost is that you openly admit that all the big talking about freedom, democracy and such americans are so found of is a big hypocrisy. Can you live with that?

The Crimea peninsula became Ukrainian territory only 60 years ago. Before that it became Russian pretty much the same way most of America became USA - the foreigners with the guns exiled the native population from its lands.

This is mostly about Russian internal politics - with poor economy, authoritarian regime, and lack of freedoms Putin has only one thing to sell to the Russians - the glory of a Russian empire. You know, you may be poor and oppressed, but you are part of a great country that can throw its weight around, so you feel a little better about yourself. It certainly beats only being poor and oppressed. It seems to be universal human quality, too - just look around.

Follow the Money. All of a sudden the Ukraine is bankrupt and the US has to give them 1Billion to pay off the Bankers? Are we helping the Ukraine or are we paying off the banks again??

Originally Posted by Johnus

Follow the Money. All of a sudden the Ukraine is bankrupt and the US has to give them 1Billion to pay off the Bankers? Are we helping the Ukraine or are we paying off the banks again??

Al of a sudden? They have been in deep economic doo-doo for a long time and are into it deep with the Russians.