Thread: The Ukraine situation

Originally Posted by earcutter

Well there's a few things you are talking about in that post but I giggle (not at you) the most when you say we have no right to get involved in others issues when we can't keep our house in shape.

When American States were deciding if they needed any civil rights for gay people here at home... Obama was telling Uganda to get it together with respect to their views on homosexuality... all the while, it was the Christian Right in America actually funding the hate in Uganda.

- From Uganda to the U.S. Bible Belt, the proliferation of gay discrimination laws - World - CBC News

Too Funny!!

The wife and I were talking about that the other day too. Seems the Muslims are not the only ones to have people interpret a book in a way to justify hatred. Seems we are blessed with our own Christian Mullahs.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

That might be so and the reason I hope it does not turn into open conflict. Remember too that they too had their own Vietnam and that was Afghanistan.

Bob

Big Diff, this will be a war on thier own turf

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Big Diff, this will be a war on thier own turf

Yea, that is the problem, the Ukraine is not their own turf any more. They have to cross a border to get there. Just like they had to cross a bridge to leave Afghanistan back to their own turf on the other side. Several of the now independent Stans who were formerly part of the USSR border Afghanistan. It was a short walk home for them.

Bob

The problem is, I think, that Putin has something to prove with Ukraine and he is the kind of man who digs in when challenged.

My personal view is that Russia's weakest point is it's economy. If anything is to happen I'd like to see Russia's major trading partners bring it to heel with sanctions rather than physical conflict. But I don't even know if that's possible since China I'm sure plays a major role there somewhere - and they've shown in the past how they role when it comes to this kind of thing with Russia.

James.

I guess when it comes to economic sanctions against Russia it could be a bit of a double edged sword. The EU is still pretty dependent on Russia for a lot of its oil and gas.

Bob

Yes sanctions will not work as to many east and west Europe nations have to many interest in Russia then add to that all the Asia Nation that have ties. No sanctions would be followed by enough nations to be effective and may actually make Russia stronger.

Russia may no longer be a super power but it is a large regional power (with a large army) and a world economic power that it can effectively do what it wants as long as it does not directly affect a core eu state, Japan, Us, Canada, aus or china.

Originally Posted by Castel33

Yes sanctions will not work as to many east and west Europe nations have to many interest in Russia then add to that all the Asia Nation that have ties. No sanctions would be followed by enough nations to be effective and may actually make Russia stronger.

Russia may no longer be a super power but it is a large regional power (with a large army) and a world economic power that it can effectively do what it wants as long as it does not directly affect a core eu state, Japan, Us, Canada, aus or china.

As far as Power,I think Russia is on par with the U.S. we can both knock each other out in a heartbeat.
Hopefully our mis guided american leaders do not start another cold war.
Obamba needs to back off,JMO

Originally Posted by BobH

The wife and I were talking about that the other day too. Seems the Muslims are not the only ones to have people interpret a book in a way to justify hatred. Seems we are blessed with our own Christian Mullahs.

Bob

Guys, this thread has a definite topic. Let's stay on that topic.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

As far as Power,I think Russia is on par with the U.S. we can both knock each other out in a heartbeat.
Hopefully our mis guided american leaders do not start another cold war.
Obamba needs to back off,JMO

There is another big difference. The Russian society is not controlled by huggy feely thinking media as much as the US. Russia does not shy away from high body count. Not in enemy casualties and not in their own, and there will be no domestic political backlash if a couple hundred people snuff it. If there is one thing Russians know how to do, it is to die well, according to many historians.
Russia will not attack the US or the EU directly. They have nothing to win.

The former soviet states otoh, they are not afraid to pounce. And the thing is, there is a huge pro russian population there, which is why the country has been a political hotbed for the last decade. Russia was happy enough with yanukovich because he was pro russian. Now there has been a minor revolution and the current leadership of the day is pro EU. Russia has sheltered yanukovich, who still has the support of a large part of the population. Putin is hoping that he can flip the balance again.

The Russian parliament vote is a joke btw. Is there anyone who doubts that Tzar Putin rules Russia with an Iron fist?

One other factor to consider is the historical ties between Russia, Syria, and Iran. I could see this triad/alliance trying to assert its muscle as a regional power in some ways, with Putin as its required egomaniac. Assad already knows that he can slaughter his people wholesale with impunity (and who wants to assist "the rebels" when many of them are apparently Al Qaeda affiliates?). Yet another geopolitical s**t-storm in which there are no easy choices. And if that's not complicated enough, we still have NATO allies in Eastern Europe who are no doubt growing nervous.