Thread: The world I would love to live in.

Originally Posted by Lakebound

But again, those who preach tolerance are the least tolerant of different opinions.

Frank

Well, but disagreement != intolerance.

Without attributing motive in this case, one hears the quoted sentiment pretty regularly as a way to silence critique. Person A expresses an opinion, Person B describes it as intolerant or bigoted, and Person A says, "You're not tolerating my opinion! See, you're intolerant!"

If someone were to make race-related or religion-related comments analogous to those expressed here concerning sexuality (wishing that some ethnic/religious population didn't exist, or treating them as a problem to be solved, or questioning their morality as a class), it would not be treated as an opinion worthy of reasoned discussion. Members would recoil, and the post likely deleted. We agree as a community that (say) white supremacy is simply not a topic on which reasonable people disagree...at least not here.

In some communities, posts in such a vein about gays are treated the same way. SRP is not such a community; okay. But for some members to describe that they perceive such posts as intolerant or bigoted is not "intolerance". All they deny their conversation partner is the privilege to express their views without criticism.

My 2¢, to take or to leave.

Originally Posted by deepweeds

Well, but disagreement != intolerance.

Without attributing motive in this case, one hears the quoted sentiment pretty regularly as a way to silence critique. Person A expresses an opinion, Person B describes it as intolerant or bigoted, and Person A says, "You're not tolerating my opinion! See, you're intolerant!"

If someone were to make race-related or religion-related comments analogous to those expressed here concerning sexuality (wishing that some ethnic/religious population didn't exist, or treating them as a problem to be solved, or questioning their morality as a class), it would not be treated as an opinion worthy of reasoned discussion. Members would recoil, and the post likely deleted. We agree as a community that (say) white supremacy is simply not a topic on which reasonable people disagree...at least not here.

In some communities, posts in such a vein about gays are treated the same way. SRP is not such a community; okay. But for some members to describe that they perceive such posts as intolerant or bigoted is not "intolerance". All they deny their conversation partner is the privilege to express their views without criticism.

My 2¢, to take or to leave.

So, only the politically correct held beliefs may be espoused in the world. All others must be suppressed. And I am not speaking about this forum but rather modern society as a whole.

Proof in the US would be the targeting of certain groups by the IRS.

Those in power will suppress opposing opinions one way or another. Either directly or indirectly by means of propaganda.

My 2 cents.

Frank

I'll probably get flamed, but what really is the point of a thread like this?

Right Gentlemen, I have removed 4 posts from this thread.
SRP is not the place for name calling and dis-respectful behaviour towards each other.
Please, stay on topic and most of all, be respectful of others opinions.

Birnando, the mod team

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

I'll probably get flamed, but what really is the point of a thread like this?

You for sure don't want to get flamed by Trogdor "The Burninator". Thankfully, you are not a peasant, living in a thatch roof cottage.....in the night.

The Constitution does not stand alone as far as documents go. Yes it is the framework of our government which we the people have lost all control over. You are living an allusion if you think for one minute you are voting for the candidate of your choice. These people they put in front of you to vote on are pre selected, bought and paid for, and no one else is allowed to play the game. The agencies like the FDA, IRS, Homeland security, even those in the judicial system are hand picked for their political alliances. The reality of today is far from what the founding fathers had in mind and that is why we are here discussing futile points of interest. That is why we are concerned about being over run with illegals, giving to much to those who don't deserve it, not giving enough to those who do. We have lost track of what is really important because we are led to believe all this other stuff is the problem. When it becomes to much to live with then those with guns and a leader will change it all. That is why we are to keep and bear arms. Although I think this is probably a mute point anymore because anyone who was smart enough to lead the change would be jailed and or killed before they got started. And as trusting as everyone is in this country they wouldn't believe him if he did come along. Money runs this country and it's not the money that is in plain view. This is exactly the opposite of what the founders had in mind regardless of time frames and their ancient ways of viewing the world. We are still fighting the same fight they started only we are not as smart and or as brave as they were.

The Christian Bible is quite clear on the subject:


"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination."*(Leviticus 20:13).

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you."(Leviticus 18:22-24).

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."(Romans 1:26-27).

Jude testifies about God's fiery destruction of Sodom for*"sexual immorality":*

"As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."*(Jude 7)

Exactly what type of*"sexual immorality"*and*"strange flesh"*had the Sodomites*"gone after"? It was homosexuality:*

"Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."(Genesis 19:4-5)

With that said, I do not believe that it is my job to pass judgement but to love people different than me. Love your neighbor as yourself.

Or, love the sinner but not the sin so to speak.

Frank

That last verse about Sodom is them trying to sleep with angels not men. Fun fact love the sinner hate the sin was spoken by Gandhi. Leviticus also says women should leave town during their menstrual cycle then go through a weird cleansing process... Do you abide that as well? I don't really like debating religion cause I can't change your mind nor you mine, but what I would like to ask is if you have religious beliefs don't try to make them into laws that affect everyone. You can believe and follow your religion all day but give me the freedom not to.

Originally Posted by aa1192

That last verse about Sodom is them trying to sleep with angels not men. Fun fact love the sinner hate the sin was spoken by Ghandi. Leviticus also says women should leave town during their menstrual cycle then go through a weird cleansing process... Do you abide that as well? I don't really like debating religion cause I can't change your mind nor you mine, but what I would like to ask is if you have religious beliefs don't try to make them into laws that affect everyone. You can believe and follow your religion all day but give me the freedom not to.

We are talking about where you claim God spoke nothing about homosexuality. Now you wish to discuss menstrual cycles? Sacred Scripture is believed to be Divinely Inspired by God and thus, the Word of God. Therefore I cited several versus directly dealing with the subject. Do you have proof if what you claim with your Angels story?

You really cannot un-ring the bell when it comes to the influence that Judeo Christian beliefs have had on American laws. Take a good look at our currency as well as inscriptions on most historical landmarks in DC.

Like I stated, I don't care who loves or has sex with who. That's your business. You don't want laws forbidding homosexuality and I don't want that lifestyle shoved in my face 24/7 as part of an indoctrination into making it "normal".

Sounds to me like we're asking for the same thing: To be left alone in our beliefs.

Frank

I'm not to argue about any religion vs moral standards here, but the values we think today as 'good' and morally right, can not be adapted by any single religion (or culture) alone.
Say 10 commands is a good example. All if not most can be found not only from the Bible but Qaran and Gilgamesh as well. Most religiongs, be it monotheistic or pluralistic, share somewhat the same values. And not only religions; such values have been more or less the same even with paganistic natives. Similar values behind different stories.
And from all these religious texts can be found also lessons and teachings that are no 'good' or acceptable to our moral standards. For some reason we ignore them even if they are from the same books that we think as divine and holy.

That is why i don't accept any moral standard just because this or that book says so. I respect those who do but people really need no religion to have moral standards. Those values are much more than just from any religion but rather universal.