Thread: Ebola

This Obama argument is un-winnable.
It would seem many people are just angry. We just all need to be hip and cool so lets just agree it is:

Bush’s Fault
The Republicans Fault
The President was unaware
All Computer hard drives crash in Government
Benghazi was all over a movie.
Christians, Jews need to get over their beliefs and do what the people that know best say.
Continue to have NASA thank the Arabs for all they did to help so they can feel good.
Fast and Furious was all made up and caused by a couple rouge agents.
The borders are secure as they have ever been.
ISIS is a manageable situation with all the help we have from our Arab friends.
The NSA is not spying on the American people.
The secret service is just misunderstood
The Administration does not want to silence any news source that disagrees
There is no Marine in Mexico our government is not working to free.
It is always a good trade when you get 1 Deserter for 2 Taliban.
There are many improvements in the VA
The Administration is not purging the Generals, Colonels & Majors with War experience.
Solar panes are the way of the future
It is good borrow and print money.
Global warming needs to be our #1 concern.
The constitution is an old out dated document as well as the bill of rights.
It is best to bypass congress every chance you can.
Health insurance cost less now.
The CDC is strong and in charge.
Ebola is completely under control because the federal government is preparing a US Army Task Force to deploy on US Soil.
We need to keep Harry Reid so America stays strong.
The GOP is not good for the socialist state and should be branded illegal.


See its that simple not hard at all, once we can agree on this we can hold hands and sing (Hail to the chief)

Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic

You're right that everybody is elected... but the presidency comes with perks that the congress does not get. Obama won, so he has the right to staff positions as he sees fit. I can understand blocking for gross incompetence, but the GOP congress is blocking over ideology. Ideology is settled during elections, not during the appointment of judges and other positions.

You can blame the republicans all you like but its the democratic Senate that he can't get through. Harry Reid changed the rules requiring only 51 votes. The republicans can't block that IF the dems have the stomach to confirm him. The fact of the matter is, everyone knows that this appointment was made to do what could not pass legislatively. His qualifications have also come into question by a former SG who charged that he had “no significant related leadership experience and no formal public health training or experience.” The selection was political and the fact that he hasn't been confirmed by the democratically controlled SENATE is political. And yet the republicans, so far, have had little to do with it. The administrations track record speaks for itself. This is yet another example.

I'm new to SRP. Is it typical for threads to be committed to off-shaving-topic issues or questions? I do enjoy discussions like this, but I have other sites for that. For me, I come here for shaving and razor talk. I guess I can just avoid the thread.

Originally Posted by Smyth

I'm new to SRP. Is it typical for threads to be committed to off-shaving-topic issues or questions? I do enjoy discussions like this, but I have other sites for that. For me, I come here for shaving and razor talk. I guess I can just avoid the thread.

The forum containing this thread is the 'Conversation' forum. It is defined in the forum menu as, "A forum where Gentlemen of all persuasions, nationalities and backgrounds can come together in harmonious conversation to discuss all matter of civilized subjects in a gentlemanly fashion."

There are numerous forums on this board that are devoted to shaving and shaving related topics. The only other forum devoted to non shave related topics is the "Finer Things In Life." You are free to access or ignore any forum on this board. The forums are moderated to insure civil discourse, and members may report any infractions to the staff with a couple of mouse clicks. Enjoy your participation here.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The forum containing this thread is the 'Conversation' forum. It is defined in the forum menu as, "A forum where Gentlemen of all persuasions, nationalities and backgrounds can come together in harmonious conversation to discuss all matter of civilized subjects in a gentlemanly fashion."

There are numerous forums on this board that are devoted to shaving and shaving related topics. The only other forum devoted to non shave related topics is the "Finer Things In Life." You are free to access or ignore any forum on this board. The forums are moderated to insure civil discourse, and members may report any infractions to the staff with a couple of mouse clicks.

Thank you. I should have done a little more site-surfing before asking my question. Fair enough. Carry on.

Originally Posted by hidestoart

The NSA is not spying on the American people.

It has been happening on a large scale since at least the early 90s, with various attempts like the "Clipper Chip" program which would have given the NSA backdoor access to any digital communication. There was a serious ramp-up after 9/11, due to popular support... I do remember that an unspecified "data warehouse" program of the US Govt (probably a direct ancestor of PRISM) was acquiring insane amounts of computer memory between 2001 and 2004. Room 641A and similar operations were operated by the telcos themselves for the NSA, from 2003 onwards (AT&T in the case of 641A), to tap all communications originating from, transiting through or ending in the US. A former NSA director estimated that there are between 10 and 20 similar black rooms in operation in the US, so it's safe to assume that all major telcos are tapped at all time.

The information that your government massively spies on you has been out in the open for at least 21 years. The information has been leaked again and again by whistle-blowers but nobody gave a damn until the last round of leaks.

It has probably been happening before that, but I wasn't paying attention to those things then. One could also easily argue that it was already happening in the 50s with the technology available then.

Originally Posted by hidestoart

It is good borrow and print money.

Out of the last 74 years, that has been the US government mode of operations for all but 12 years. It's hard to find yearly statistics going back all the way, but a high-level view would be (inflation-adjusted dollars):

1789 to 1849: Cumulative Surplus of $70 million dollars
1850 to 1900: Cumulative Deficit of $991 million dollars
1901 to 1939: 19 years of surplus, 18 years of deficit, 2 years of breaking even. Cumulative Deficit of 36.521 billion dollars.

Basically, short of the first 60 years it's been "borrowing and printing money" all along.

Unfortunately, the solution is unpopular on both sides of the divide: increase tax revenues *and* cut spending.

Happy news - I heard someone recovered from ebola after being treated with something extracted from the bodily fluids of other ebola survivors.

Reminds me of that South Park episode with Magic Johnson on AIDS - the cure for ebola is very large injections.....of cash!

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/164373...-cure-for-aids

James.

Originally Posted by MichaelP

Out of the last 74 years, that has been the US government mode of operations for all but 12 years. It's hard to find yearly statistics going back all the way, but a high-level view would be (inflation-adjusted dollars):

1789 to 1849: Cumulative Surplus of $70 million dollars
1850 to 1900: Cumulative Deficit of $991 million dollars
1901 to 1939: 19 years of surplus, 18 years of deficit, 2 years of breaking even. Cumulative Deficit of 36.521 billion dollars.

Basically, short of the first 60 years it's been "borrowing and printing money" all along.

Unfortunately, the solution is unpopular on both sides of the divide: increase tax revenues *and* cut spending.

Just for some perspective, the years 1850-1900 included the American Civil War. This debacle, and its aftermath must have had a lot to do with that fiscal condition. The 19 years of surplus end with the beginning of WWII. Since then I see no excuse but greed and profligacy ....... of which I can't throw stones ....... seeing the glass house I live in.

Now that I'm done ....... the topic of the OP is Ebola. Please try to confine your remarks to that subject. Feel free to start new threads on side topics that develop. Just don't want the original thread to go further off in tangents of one kind or another .

Originally Posted by shooter74743

THANK YOU! I have friends in the healthcare industry and thank goodness the cold/flu season hasn't really kicked off.

I minored in Biology due to my interest in virus's and bacteria in the late 80's-early 90's...hemorrhagic fever was around then & it was common speak that there were a couple military locations like Ft. Detrick, one or two private labs, and of course CDC who had vaults of the bad stuff to test/play with and of course vaccines for said bad stuff. Unless this was lies & I truly doubt it, where is all of this information/research now? You can't tell me such a bad virus (and old) has not been researched more than is being told...unless the testing is "classified" due to folks not liking that the government was involved in biological warfare testing. Furthermore, you can't tell me that there isn't a vaccine for it in some vault deep underground. I can't help it but feel my conspiracy theory meter is climbing & I truly try to stay informed to see through the bull crap. Is it a money thing? Is it a way to get a rfid in everyone "vaccinated"? Is it population genocide? Is this "ebola scare" some sort of re-direction? Hard not to let some thoughts go rampant when there is so much bull, actions, and lack of actions going on.

Ok, rant over...

It has probably been studied. However, there are countless strains of such bad germs. They're studied, and then stored away. Vaccine development at significant quantities costs oodles of money. Making medicine even more so. I work for a big pharma company; I know how much it costs. To bring an approved product to market costs hundreds of millions, and about 7 years, assuming that you already have a running plant you can use. There are so many of those bugs, and the risk of such a bug going pandemic is so low that literally noone is going to spend any money on production or even developing ramp-up scenarios.

The notion that they can just pick something out of a closet and say 'here it is', is completely wrong. They may have some untested, experimental stuff in very low quantities, that has never gone through human trial. When it's gone, it's gone. That is why only a couple of health workers got it so far. People have been treated with it. There is none to spare. Even to make a raw batch of untested, unvalidated take-at-own-risk vaccine or medicine could take half a year, depending on just how it is made. The stuff we make, takes months. If the product hasn't been made the the processes have been shelved for a while, it could be much longer. Because manufacture of many such treatments rely on biological processes, it is vastly more complex and time consuming than mixing up a batch of aspirin. At this point in time, the handful of survivors donate a lot of plasma because that is the best bet for now. Basically, their bodies produce the antibodies that we'd need for a treatment. And reproducing this process in a bioreactor is very costly, very time consuming to get right, and very difficult. As I said, hundreds of millions and 7 years, which is why there is no commercial stuff nor the resources to ramp up quickly.

Also, while there has been some research into hemorrhagic fevers, all big players have abandoned it for weapons use (except for the ones that have known to be developed at some point in the past, which is why soldiers still get innoculated against smallpox). A fever that would be a great weapon would also be so uncontrollable that you may just end up liquidating your own army or population. Anthrax and other such nasties is where the research is at: things that can be controlled and targeted accurately.

Originally Posted by Bruno

It has probably been studied. However, there are countless strains of such bad germs. They're studied, and then stored away. Vaccine development at significant quantities costs oodles of money. Making medicine even more so. I work for a big pharma company; I know how much it costs. To bring an approved product to market costs hundreds of millions, and about 7 years, assuming that you already have a running plant you can use. There are so many of those bugs, and the risk of such a bug going pandemic is so low that literally noone is going to spend any money on production or even developing ramp-up scenarios.

The notion that they can just pick something out of a closet and say 'here it is', is completely wrong. They may have some untested, experimental stuff in very low quantities, that has never gone through human trial. When it's gone, it's gone. That is why only a couple of health workers got it so far. People have been treated with it. There is none to spare. Even to make a raw batch of untested, unvalidated take-at-own-risk vaccine or medicine could take half a year, depending on just how it is made. The stuff we make, takes months. If the product hasn't been made the the processes have been shelved for a while, it could be much longer. Because manufacture of many such treatments rely on biological processes, it is vastly more complex and time consuming than mixing up a batch of aspirin. At this point in time, the handful of survivors donate a lot of plasma because that is the best bet for now. Basically, their bodies produce the antibodies that we'd need for a treatment. And reproducing this process in a bioreactor is very costly, very time consuming to get right, and very difficult. As I said, hundreds of millions and 7 years, which is why there is no commercial stuff nor the resources to ramp up quickly.

Also, while there has been some research into hemorrhagic fevers, all big players have abandoned it for weapons use (except for the ones that have known to be developed at some point in the past, which is why soldiers still get innoculated against smallpox). A fever that would be a great weapon would also be so uncontrollable that you may just end up liquidating your own army or population. Anthrax and other such nasties is where the research is at: things that can be controlled and targeted accurately.

Agree with all this. But a few points - I'm not a fan of the monopolies that pharm companies have here in the US. Take the hep C treatment - it's $20k/pill here, but costs about 1% of that in India because the drug companies don't have a patent monopoly there. Although pharm companies do have to spend money to get the drugs through FDA, there's is MILLIONS to BILLIONS spent in basic research through tax dollars that lead up to that. A big reason that our healthcare costs are so far above the rest of the world's is that we allow patent monopolies on drugs. Also, like you said, ebola is not good for weaponizing. It's not easily spread and the quickness of the lethality makes it unlikely to become very widespread.