Thread: UK out of EU

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

with no right wing parties able to influence or scare them into the Brexit vote and they voted out, I myself voted out as I see no long term future within europe I've never been a supporter of bigger is better

By voting out, they sold their fate, and future, to right wing parties, though. I think we can agree on that?

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

in fact I'm a big fan of the late James Goldsmith and his ideas.

Ah yes, that. But the Euro is not the EU, mind you. The UK did not have it, will not have it, and that is that. The referendum was not about joining the Euro zone, but about leaving the common market. And, in the case of Wales, access to EU structural funds, although apparently nobody told the Welsh in proper terms.

Originally Posted by RobinK

By voting out, they sold their fate, and future, to right wing parties, though. I think we can agree on that?

Ah yes, that. But the Euro is not the EU, mind you. The UK did not have it, will not have it, and that is that. The referendum was not about joining the Euro zone, but about leaving the common market. And, in the case of Wales, access to EU structural funds, although apparently nobody told the Welsh in proper terms.

So Robin - let's dive into some root cause analysis, specifically Merkel and her puppet government in the EU? You have yet to address many of the world commentators, both on the left and right, that place the blame for Brexit, the rise of Nationalism, the coming potential referendums in France, the Netherlands etc., squarely at Merkel and the Germany's feet.

It wasn't me that came up with the phrase, "Germany has once again destroyed Europe, this time without firing a single shot...."

Originally Posted by Phrank

puppet government

I'm terribly sorry, but you lost me there.

Originally Posted by RobinK

I'm terribly sorry, but you lost me there.

Don't be obtuse Robin, if you managed to throw out a Lord of the Flies reference, I'm sure you're just as quick to understand that the EU is dominated and has been controlled by Merkel, i.e., Germany.

They have been imposing their political and financial policy on the rest of the EU, and essentially, not only is Brexit a rejection of the EU, it's a rejection of once again, Germany dominating Europe. Merkel's reckless policies, imposing poverty on Greece, hard-lining the UK and Europe by imposing an Orwellian array of regulations, imposing immigration and free movement, is one of the defining reasons Nationalism is on the rise, and the EU has failed.

Again, I'll make it easy for you - what responsibility for this disastrous Brexit result and the continuing dissolution of the EU do you attribute to Merkel?

Easy...

Originally Posted by Phrank

Don't be obtuse Robin, if you managed to throw out a Lord of the Flies reference, I'm sure you're just as quick to understand that the EU is dominated and has been controlled by Merkel, i.e., Germany.

They have been imposing their political and financial policy on the rest of the EU, and essentially, not only is Brexit a rejection of the EU, it's a rejection of once again, Germany dominating Europe. Merkel's reckless policies, imposing poverty on Greece, hard-lining the UK and Europe by imposing an Orwellian array of regulations, imposing immigration and free movement, is one of the defining reasons Nationalism is on the rise, and the EU has failed.

Again, I'll make it easy for you - what responsibility for this disastrous Brexit result and the continuing dissolution of the EU do you attribute to Merkel?

Easy...

It is easy to mix Germany and EU by accident these days. Germany ruling the Europe couldn't be further from how things really are. The union is relatively loose comparing to other federations of the world: Russia, Canada, USA, even Germany and Switzerland. Because of the autonomy in Åland isles (and probably we see and autonomic Sami country in the future) even my country is a federation.
And almost every time you ask someone what is the EU regulation he/she hates the most, the answer is something that has nothing to do with the union at all. Recently here people were mouthing against union because of the annual car inspections. Note: The union regulations demands inspections every 4th year, national law says once every year. And so on. And so on.

Another that is easy to be against these days are the basics of free movements: services, goods, people, money. Just like it is between US states. At the same time those who are against use those very same basics every day. By demanding prohibitions they actually want to decrease their own rights. I've lived in times when those rights were not obvious. Haven't missed them every since.

It doesn't mean that the union is ready. There's a lot to do now and in the future. But as long as it accused for bit wrong reasons it surely makes it no easier.
The union has made a huge mistake when it has failed to tell people what it is and specially what it isn't.

I guess, at least for me, this is not a question on what we just saw in UK. It is their right and i guess it's whole Europe and world respects the results of the referendum. There might be positive and/or negative consequenses but i'm sure Britons have their ways to share the gains and losses by themselves.

It is about the certain trend in politics these days here and there. We seem to be slowly moving into an era where politicians no more need to give people pure facts but images. And i'm certainly sure it is a huge risk to democracy, liberties and freedom to choose. People deserve to know what they actually are voting for.

Originally Posted by Phrank

[...]the EU is dominated and has been controlled by Merkel, i.e., Germany.

Greetings from my wife, Phrank.

Originally Posted by The Wife

"Make him read this: EUR-Lex - 12012E/TXT - EN - EUR-Lex

Make him count the word "unanimously".

Which part of "unanimously" does he have difficulty in understanding?"

Originally Posted by RobinK

Greetings from my wife, Phrank.

I'm terribly sorry, but you lost me there.



And which part of having you explain Merkel's role in this have you failed to comprehend, or is your precious leader beyond reproach, ask "your wife" that question, as she seems to answer for you.

Originally Posted by Phrank

And which part of having you explain Merkel's role in this have you failed to comprehend[...]

Exactly none. Read EUR-Lex - 12012E/TXT - EN - EUR-Lex, count the word "unanimously". Yes, that part of the EU is that simple.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Exactly none. Read EUR-Lex - 12012E/TXT - EN - EUR-Lex, count the word "unanimously". Yes, that part of the EU is that simple.

After all your rhetoric on this thread, the best you have to offer is a cut and paste link?

Oh well, you and your wife seem not to want to discuss Merkel's role in this, ignorance is bliss as they say...the UK will be fine, just a tempest in a teapot, and the EU will continue to erode, till Germany has Greece and other bankrupt bunkmates as members they can boss around, good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Phrank

After all your rhetoric on this thread, the best you have to offer is a cut and paste link?

Actually, that "cut and paste link" is the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. You should probably read it before trying to engage in a conversation. Because if you have not understood what the 116 instances of "unanimous" mean, you are bound to make yourself ill informed.