Thread: Transgender Weightlifter Killing it

Originally Posted by Pithor

I do however feel like a discussion with regards to physical competition is relevant. I also don't believe transgender people can be physically on the same level as the gender they aim for.

I think it's more of an all or nothing thing. What you're saying can be viewed as selective discrimination. A similar scenario I envision would be a group of biological females who decide to form a club of some sort perhaps in addition to being female, also share a common experience of childbirth. Transgender proponents and supporters would most likely cry foul if such a group didn't want a biological male identifying as a woman in the group.

I'm actually surprised that there has not been more of a public assertion by biological females who have given birth as to uniqueness of such an experience which, like it or not, absolutely excludes biological males in any form from identifying with said experience. I recall when my wife, who with one of our children was in labor for 35 hours read that the musician Sheryl Crow who adopted or had a surrogate give birth said something to the effect of: "When we gave birth to.....". My wife's reaction was pretty visceral: "Um, YOU didn't give birth to anyone there, Sheryl!". I'm sure an argument could be raised that there are many biological females who don't give birth and no less a woman for not doing so. I guess my point is childbirth is real and unique and can't be identified with unless you're a biological woman who has given birth....

I recall reading some things after that woman's march in the U.S. that some biological women were not accepting of transgender males identifying as women joining the march for the cause of women.

Its not the transition I am opposed to it is the hormones etc.... that they take (need) surely that must give an advantage??? Sharapova got banned for taking a substance (that was legal and only just changed) if she had been taking the medication the transgender people have/need to take she would of been banned for life, for that reason it just does not make a level playing field (hey I am not saying all other sports people are clean just because they have not got caught etc.... cycling is an example of that)

I dont mind the people going through a change like that and then going public can not be easy, but the medication imho makes a difference that is just unfair

Originally Posted by alpla444

Its not the transition I am opposed to it is the hormones etc.... that they take (need) surely that must give an advantage??? Sharapova got banned for taking a substance (that was legal and only just changed) if she had been taking the medication the transgender people have/need to take she would of been banned for life, for that reason it just does not make a level playing field (hey I am not saying all other sports people are clean just because they have not got caught etc.... cycling is an example of that)

I dont mind the people going through a change like that and then going public can not be easy, but the medication imho makes a difference that is just unfair

It's impossible for someone to change gender without taking hormones. I wonder if things will change soon in regard to Olympic and professional sports in regard to testing for hormone "enhancement".....

I had mentioned "subjective reality" being the basis for things such as the acceptance of a person's gender based on their perception vs. their biology.

This may get some eye rolls or groans, but I'm being honest with my view that others accepting someone's subjective reality as reality could extend past gender identity to other forms of self perception. There is, for example at least one case of a man, Luis Padron, who considers himself trans-species. He's spent a ton of money on a large number of plastic surgeries to permanently alter his appearance to look as closely as possible to his perception of what an elf would look like. He considers himself elvish. If subjective reality is the rule, I ask, why society shouldn't be expected to recognize him as an elf. Or the artist, Neil Harbisson, who has Synesthesia and has some sort of brain implant and has asked that he be recognized as a cyborg rather than human. I think we have to be careful if our attitude as a society is: "It's only right to accept and respect someone who thinks they're a gender different than their biology, but accepting someone who thinks they're an elf or a cyborg? Well that's just plum crazy!"

People can do or think as they choose in America. I have no problem with any of it as long as it does not become a burden on the taxpayer or gets special treatment/advantages/benefits that a normal person does not get.

Well, there is the case of Rachel Dolezal who decided to be black and took advantage of that fraud.

"Identifying" as something that you are not is fine. I suppose I can "identify" as an airline pilot, but I'd better not be allowed in a cockpit. Once again, my rights cease where yours begin.

The absurdity of political correctness. All "her" cells are still genetically male. The only thing that has changed is that oestrogens have replaced testosterone. It is unfair to the majority of real women that they have to compete against these transgenders. This is the reversal of democracy: tiny minorities and their vassals ruling sports.

I've been watching this thread from afar and I have my opinion on the matter however I'll keep it to myself so as to keep the integrity of the thread intact.

I do have an 'observation' or 'question'. While I have no idea of how this 'conversion' works other than some surgery. Doesn't it take Hormone Injections or such to make the 'transfer' possible and keep it happening?

If this is true, there are rules in sports about participants not being able to use hormones. Or does taking female hormones not count?

Just wondering

Male to female transgenders are castrated in the process and take oestrogens to become more feminine.

So wouldn't those estrogen 'supplements' be classified as an 'enhancement' and be banned? I see no difference between a male changing and using the estrogen to be able to compete unfairly against actual women then a woman using testosterone to try to compete against a man. Or non changed sexes using whatever enhancements to compete against other non changed sexes.

It just doesn't make any sense. If it did, then Lance Armstrong would still be a winner

I applaud my fellow SRP members for the tact displayed thus far on a potentially explosive thread.
Articulate opinions and discussion between gentlemen.
Well done men.

Seems we mostly all agree that from the purely athletic competition perspective, TG's should not be in the same league as their biological equivalents. The differences of established genetic code is just too significant to be ignored. Bone density, muscle mass etc.
I hope the Sports authorities of the world get in front of this to create custom categories specifically for this new variable.
Backlash and resentment within the sporting, or sport supporting community could be minimized, which could go a long way towards overall acceptance, both of the athletes themselves, and the very difficult life choices made to get these people to this place in their lives.
Can't imagine all the strains of the identity issue, coupled with the real pressures of professional competitive training, all going on at the same time.
Cheers.