Thread: Mans Intelligence

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I always like to hear your views, GW, and generally I agree with you. As I do in this case.

I'm not anti-capitalism. I didn't expect my previous post would be construed that way, actually, but there you go.

Nor do I think altruism is the pinnacle of human accomplishment. But it appeared to me from previous posts that in order to remove some layers of government, what was needed was for people to self-moderate some of their behaviours. I was merely trying to point out that in a capitalistic system that rewards self-interested behaviour, this may be a little tricky and is perhaps why our countries appear so over-governed.

James.

Actually, I was surprised to hear such conservative views in one of your earlier posts.
About liberties being whittled away and all.

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

Actually, I was surprised to hear such conservative views in one of your earlier posts.
About liberties being whittled away and all.

Yeah, I guess you could take that as conservative. It must be a cultural thing - pretty much people who speak out over here on the insidious removal of certain rights are basically left wing

Something's getting lost in translation...

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I always like to hear your views, GW, and generally I agree with you. As I do in this case.

I'm not anti-capitalism. I didn't expect my previous post would be construed that way, actually, but there you go.

Nor do I think altruism is the pinnacle of human accomplishment. But it appeared to me from previous posts that in order to remove some layers of government, what was needed was for people to self-moderate some of their behaviours. I was merely trying to point out that in a capitalistic system that rewards self-interested behaviour, this may be a little tricky and is perhaps why our countries appear so over-governed.

James.

Gottcha James and good point.

Justin

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

Gottcha James and good point.

Justin

Thanks Justin - sorry I went about it in such a long-winded fashion.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Thanks Justin - sorry I went about it in such a long-winded fashion.

James.

James --not long winded at all --- I think the forum could use more of your opinion (let it rip )

Justin

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

My views.... since i'm sure you all wanted to hear them.

I'm glad to live in a capitalist society.

When you give someone something they haven't earned you take away their pride.
You take away their drive, their self esteem.

I have never received charity of any kind (public or private) and would be ashamed to.

I like the fact that the harder I work, the more I will have.
Not because material things are all important, but because I want to keep what I earn and not hve it taken and given to someone else.

I despise the individual who disposes of what another has generated without care.

A man who produces only to have it taken away with no restitution is a slave.

Well put Sir!

At the risk of making this thread into an "America is the cause of all the worlds problems" fest I would like to point out that when the pilgrims of 1620 first arrived in America they tried to follow Platos idea of a utopia and almost completely died out. William Bradford, I believe, changed their system from one of group ownership and everything being done for the good of the group, to a society where everyone owned their own plot of land and was responsible for their own production for the good of themselves and their family! What Gov. Bradford found was that in the utopian style society people tended to be lazy and not pull their fair share of the load but under private ownership the community thrived. He concluded that the idea of a utopian society as plato laid it out was sheer arrogance.

Originally Posted by JMS

Well put Sir!

At the risk of making this thread into an "America is the cause of all the worlds problems" fest I would like to point out that when the pilgrims of 1620 first arrived in America they tried to follow Platos idea of a utopia and almost completely died out. William Bradford, I believe, changed their system from one of group ownership and everything being done for the good of the group, to a society where everyone owned their own plot of land and was responsible for their own production for the good of themselves and their family! What Gov. Bradford found was that in the utopian style society people tended to be lazy and not pull their fair share of the load but under private ownership the community thrived. He concluded that the idea of a utopian society as plato laid it out was sheer arrogance.

Good bit of info Mark --thanks

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

My views.... since i'm sure you all wanted to hear them.

I'm glad to live in a capitalist society.

When you give someone something they haven't earned you take away their pride.
You take away their drive, their self esteem.

I have never received charity of any kind (public or private) and would be ashamed to.

I like the fact that the harder I work, the more I will have.
Not because material things are all important, but because I want to keep what I earn and not hve it taken and given to someone else.

I despise the individual who disposes of what another has generated without care.

A man who produces only to have it taken away with no restitution is a slave.

GW, don't get me going on that rant, My GF has heard that one over and over...

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

When you give someone something they haven't earned you take away their pride.
You take away their drive, their self esteem.

I have never received charity of any kind (public or private) and would be ashamed to.

Would you accept charity if your children were starving and you couldn't get a job to feed them?

I don't want charity either, and I'll do anything I can to prevent it from ever happening. But people are not always in a situation where they can do anything about it.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Would you accept charity if your children were starving and you couldn't get a job to feed them?

I don't want charity either, and I'll do anything I can to prevent it from ever happening. But people are not always in a situation where they can do anything about it.

Somehow I've managed to stay (mostly) out of this thread. But...


My parents instilled in me at an early age the importance of being responsible for myself and my actions. Many poor decisions later here I am. One correct decision I made was that to not have children. I vowed early on to not have them because I knew I could take care of myself, but I did not want to be responsible for having to take care of a child (or multiple children).

That being said, I've been in the position in my life where I could have accepted money from the government that they had taken (at the threat of gunpoint) from others. I've been hungry because I didn't. And not "I missed lunch" hungry. "Haven't eaten for 4 days" hungry. I've also (at a different time, obviously) donated tens of thousands of $ to various charitable organizations. The difference between that charity and the "charity" of the government is that I freely gave that $ of my own free will.

All that being said, here's my position: Don't have them if you can't afford them. Once you have them they are your responsibility, not mine or anyone else's. They are yours. Whatever your situation may be, however bad your luck has been, no matter how you get into a bad position, you do not have the right to another person's property.