Thread: Nazi SS monument in Canada

Just had a quick scan of this thread.. It makes me think about something that Jordan Peterson spoke about, "Nazis were humans", ..This is what we are capable of.
My ancestors, ancient Assyrians, slaughtered millions and in turn suffered genocide by the ottomans.. Something to think about i suppose..

Love Jordan Peterson btw..

“Turns out there are no Nazi symbols on the monument or mention of the 14th SS Division.
Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth to have a thinly disguised monument to an SS Division in my country. So, yes, I get to decide.”

Actually, you, don’t get to decide.
You can have an opinion, but you alone, do not get to decide the fate of the memorial. You do not even know why it was erected. You are speculating based on a new paper article and adding your emotional or political feelings to what it represents to you.

Here in the US we have “News” papers who were awarded Pulitzer Prizes for excellence in journalism award on “Russia Collusion” now we find out it never happened and was an orchestrated campaign by a political party, the prized reporting was nothing more than propaganda on behalf of the political party and now there are calls to recall the award.

Perhaps before you decide to tear it down, find out why it was erected. Probably not what you think.

Originally Posted by dimab

Not sure about "not hurting a thing".
The monument was erected not immediately after the war, but in the 80's. By then the Waffen-SS as a whole (14th division included) was declared to be a criminal organization at the Nuremberg Trials. In a speech to the soldiers of the this particular division, Heinrich Himmler stated: "Your homeland has become so much more beautiful since you have lost – on our initiative, I must say – those residents who were so often a dirty blemish on Galicia's good name, namely the Jews ... I know that if I ordered you to liquidate the Poles ... I would be giving you permission to do what you are eager to do anyway."
If in some private cemetery in TX they'd find a monument to the "brave warriors" of, say, the Taliban - who I'm sure also have brothers and sisters mourning them - would you say it's "not hurting a thing"?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“Turns out there are no Nazi symbols on the monument or mention of the 14th SS Division.
Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth to have a thinly disguised monument to an SS Division in my country. So, yes, I get to decide.”

Actually, you, don’t get to decide.
You can have an opinion, but you alone, do not get to decide the fate of the memorial. You do not even know why it was erected. You are speculating based on a new paper article and adding your emotional or political feelings to what it represents to you.

Here in the US we have “News” papers who were awarded Pulitzer Prizes for excellence in journalism award on “Russia Collusion” now we find out it never happened and was an orchestrated campaign by a political party, the prized reporting was nothing more than propaganda on behalf of the political party and now there are calls to recall the award.

Perhaps before you decide to tear it down, find out why it was erected. Probably not what you think.

Indeed. Nobody is in support of now-extinct Nazi SS. At least any decent person who knows history.
Lots of strange things in cemeteries everywhere, if you look. A fact.
Perhaps some one has interpreted this memorial hastily. That surely never happens!
Where has the outcry been in the past?
Curious..


Looks as if it was erected in 1988 and is a memorial to those who fought and died for Ukraine against Russia, albeit in a German division.
I don't think intended to glorify Nazis or SS. Like Finland, an alliance against an enemy.
Rather than be overrun by Russia, They fought alongside the Germans.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

[I]

Perhaps before you decide to tear it down, find out why it was erected. Probably not what you think.

No. It is a monument to an SS Division. I do not care what possible explanation any apologist could offer. That is unacceptable on Canadian soil.

What this has to do with your opinion on US journalism, I honestly do not know.

EDIT: this photo shows members of the division with Himmler. This is what the memorial is commemorating. No division of the SS can be explained away.

Well, the United States sent tons of aid to Russia to help defeat the Germans. As soon as it was over, the weapons were pointed at each other.

Non-issue, really. BLM's Canadian troops will topple it in short-order and it will be.....er...History!

The monument is in Canada, presumably erected by Canadians, so I think the Canadians
get to decide what to do with it, regardless of how we feel about it.

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Like Finland, an alliance against an enemy.
Rather than be overrun by Russia, They fought alongside the Germans.

I hear what you are saying... unifying against a common enemy, and Russia's neighbors, especially Finland who had already been in a bloody war against Russia just a few years prior to WWII, had no love for the Red Bear.

The difference here is, why not make the unit part of the Wehrmacht? Why the Waffen SS? The SS were the military wing of the NAZI party. Hitler's personal army. Swearing allegiance to Hitler, not to the Ukraine, or Germany. And the ideology of the NAZI party was demanded from anyone in the SS. History tells us what that ideology was. While the regular Wehrmacht was the common soldier, doing as he was told, regardless of his ideology or thoughts about the Party (some didnt even like the Party), and doing it simply for his family and his country.

I think the monument would be easier to swallow if they were not SS, for sure. That makes a huge difference in my mind.

An interesting article here. Seems Canada welcomed some of them back in the day. I suppose it goes back to 'War is Hell'.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-collaborators

Originally Posted by sharptonn

An interesting article here. Seems Canada welcomed some of them back in the day. I suppose it goes back to 'War is Hell'.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-collaborators

Yea, war criminals did get in here post WWII as they did in the US. There were Ukrainian immigrants to Canada at least as far back as 1891.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Canadians

One nitpick with the linked National Post article and that is "Here’s what we know. Soviets took control of Western Ukraine in 1939, facilitated by a secret pact with the Germans." . There was no need for the USSR to occupy any part of what is now called the Ukraine in 1939 as it was already part of the USSR. The agreement alluded to allowed the Russians to occupy the western part of Poland when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...939_4_copy.png

The argument here turns on one man's freedom fighter is another man's Nazi to paraphrase an old saying. It's a precarious argument especially when this monument is not in the Ukraine but in Canada.

Bob

I brought this up on a military history thread on a gun collector forum I frequent.
Some highly-learned guys there.
Seems these guys were dregs enlisted by the SS to do dirty work for them, mostly aimed at the Poles.
Did not fight the Russians as they were largely ineffective as soldiers. In fact, they ran and hid from the Russians as they advanced on Germany.
Lots of lies and propaganda about this and it must have swayed many as some were actually sent to Canada and the U.S. after the war. I suppose to keep them from getting slaughtered if they remained in Ukraine.

So yeah. That thing needs to go.