Thread: Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

Hey it is way too early here to get the brain juices to do something other than pestering my mind into getting more coffee.
I missed the joke. Not sure I get it now. maybe after my second cuppa.

That 7 day set... yes, well, ...I have an interesting problem. That box those razors came in is very dirty on the inside, and those supports that held the razors chafe enough that they undo my hard polishing work.
So I've taken 8 small planks of scrap wood that I am making into a crude but effective rack that is functionally the same as the box they came in, but of course less 'nice'.
But they will keep the razors clean and smooth.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Well I consider your post to be the start of that thread.
I believe that there is a God(s). I think it is pointless to put value in names, other than to name him/her in a conversation or to call on him/her.
Whether you call him Yaweh, Jehova, Allah or Odin it doesn't matter. Male and female gender are human things and I don't think it matters at all.

I also think it is not a problem to believe in more than one god. As far as I am concerned they are just representations of different aspects of the divine entity.
There is only one federal government per country, but it has a department of defense, department of healthcare, ... I don't see why the notion of multiple gods should conflict with the notion of 1 god.

One thing in which I might differ from others is that I think that churches get in the way of true religion.
I don't need priests to talk to god, I can do that myself. If god can hear the priests he can hear me too.
I also don't see why a priest / bishop / pope should be more authorative than me. their functions are pure human inventions, with promotion based on human criteria. as far as I can see, god is not involved in the whole process.

Furthermore, if we look at the past, it is safe to say that religious institutions have caused atrocities beyond belief. All of them have so no one is better than the other. If God really had something to do with organized religion, he sure made a fine mess of it.

Then there are the holy books. I can only comment on the bible because that was what I was taught in school (I am a non practising catholic).
The bible is a compilation of several separate pieces, made by whoever was in power at a time.
The contents of the New Testament were determined by a group of men with an agenda, and they scratched everything not in line with their thinking.

I do believe, but not in institutions. Institutions are only interested in pushing their own agenda.

Very well said. can u read my mind? Oh holy one.

Originally Posted by JMS

Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

Of course! It's what separates us from the animals

Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes I should have seen that one coming, but I have an answer for that:
Our government does what we tell it to do via the constitution, and we can check if it is upheld. We control the government via our vote.

A religious institution instead writes its own constitution, and then tells you what to do, based solely on the fact that you are a subscription member of that institution.

It's a shame then that the government will toss you in prison if you don't pay your ta- er, I mean, your offering

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Of course! It's what separates us from the animals

It's a shame then that the government will toss you in prison if you don't pay your ta- er, I mean, your offering

You've been nailed Bruno my dear friend!

Originally Posted by JMS

You've been nailed Bruno my dear friend!

I fail to see why.
Not paying taxes gets you into trouble in any country in the world.
Just like stealing would.

If you can find enough people to start your own party and get enough votes to be elected and to matter, then you could push that agenda.
And if you'd get > 50% of the votes, you could even get it done (66.67% if you need to amend the constitution)

You could argue that the constitution does not include taxes, but in Belgium it does.
It doesn't specify how much and to what end, but it does say that the government is entitled to levy taxes to get the funding to run the country.

So... Get enough supoprt and you can change it, just like I said before.
Belgian government does adhere to the constitution, even if it is sometimes inconvenient and causing a lot of bickering.

I am a rabid atheist, but I don't mind if other folks believe in some sort of supernatural beings.

As long as they don't get aggressive and try to shove it down my throat or label me as a freak for not thinking like they do.

Magical thinking has never made sense to me, except when it comes to honing...

Hey Mark, thanks for keeping this focused.

I guess I answered your question with my first post: No,there cannot be a designer.

To assume that the complexity that we see around us could only have occurred through the work of a being that is more complex than the reality we see around us is an error in logic.

In other words, if simple, unintelligent, clumps of energy couldn't have always existed, or come about by chance, than neither could a supremely intelligent, ultimately powerful, creator. And since one of the two situations is obviously true, the simplest solution is the safe bet.

As for the posts about morality, the validity of the religious doctrines of the world, etc. I think they're on topic because that kind of info ought to be incorporated into your thought process for determining such a weighty question. Obviously, there are people who rest their beliefs on superficial arguments like incredulity but for them, those arguments are very real and deserve consideration for the topic as a whole.

Do you care to exchange insights on the above opinions? I'd like to know what you're making of all of this (plotting something fun, maybe? prizes for the winner? ).

I believe there is a God, and that we are his children. I wouldn't try to force that belief on anyone, but I will discuss it whenever and wherever I can, and not just in church. This is a part of who I am, not just an hour on Sunday. That said, I am truly ashamed of the spectacle put forth by many of the televangelists and money-grubbers. I think it is worthwhile to note that the only time Jesus really got angry in the gospels was at the money-changers in the temple.

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

...To assume that the complexity that we see around us could only have occurred through the work of a being that is more complex than the reality we see around us is an error in logic.

In other words, if simple, unintelligent, clumps of energy couldn't have always existed, or come about by chance, than neither could a supremely intelligent, ultimately powerful, creator...

To assume that your perceptions and logical assertions should frame and define the possibility of the existence of your Creator is an error in common sense

In other words, if the created could frame and bind the creator, then wouldn't the creator be the created of its creation? And is that what you're implying?

Hog: Ah, yes, well the point is that to believe in a supernatural creator requires something "impossible" to have happened (with respect to the laws we can be cognizant of), but not only that, it requires that the impossible happened in an extremely sophisticated manner to boot.

But yes, history will show that god is as much a creation of man as man is said to be a creation of god.

Even if you play the unintelligible card, your still ceding the notion that a creator is imperfect by the vary act of creating and is therefore not worth worshiping.

Anyone care to comment on the "collective unconscious" as a model for developing religious beliefs?