Thread: Local news on Covid 19

Originally Posted by BobH

It is what the statistics and the science are saying at this point in the pandemic. It is not a belief system and not paranoia.

Speaking of the road to totalitarianism and fear, I almost wonder when the burning of scientific books will happen in the US of A.

Bob

I just don't know what else to say Bob, once you believe that people that don't get vax'd are responsible for killing people, the next step down that road is the use of force to Vax the unwilling..

I understand your posts now

And Book banning/burning is already happening in the US, leftists started that a few years ago
With a fast DDG search I found that Canada also bans some books already

Originally Posted by MikeB52

Glen, I think you are an upstanding guy, but Bobs reply isn’t paranoia.
All the statistics presented on mainstream media supports that the new cases reported daily goes down where vaccinations are high.
Every transfer of the virus or any virus it can mutate, so eventually it will be resistant to the current meds if allowed to keep being transmitted with high frequency.
That’s already the case with antibiotic resistance in germs and such as far as I understand.

MMMmmmm Hmmmmm

Mike I like you too but, the Media and the Medical Bureaucracy that feeds it has proved itself to be absolutely unreliable in the last 18 months

So scared that they have literally squashed any dissent from any Dr or Researcher that have another idea or solution

If you cant read another opinion or theory then it isn't science now is it

Agree on all points you just made as well Glen, and no I’m not Swiss and fence sitting. Hehe.
Really hard to find the truth in the abundance of free information filtered automatically by various engines and cable companies.
Cool that we here can dance, agree to disagree, and still share some common grounds.
I try to go by my gut, based on science. Everyone should. And I just hope we all get through this soon.
I also agree with Nelson that the way groups are aligning and maligning, things could get real ugly real fast across North America..
Peace gents..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

MMMmmmm Hmmmmm

Mike I like you too but, the Media and the Medical Bureaucracy that feeds it has proved itself to be absolutely unreliable in the last 18 months

So scared that they have literally squashed any dissent from any Dr or Researcher that have another idea or solution

If you cant read another opinion or theory then it isn't science now is it

I don't think it's so much a case of the main steam media or the medical bureaucracy or even the government squashing dissent from anyone, provided that their claims are backed up with solid provable facts and that they're willing to quote their sources.
It's very difficult to get behind the argument of someone that won't provide their source.

It also occurs to me that what you must be suggesting is that every media outlet and every government in the world is deliberately squashing any dissent for the vaccination, every govt in the whole world!
Why would they do that unless every govt in the world thinks the VAX is a good thing.

To you earlier reply to me.

-------
"I do understand that there might be long term side effects, I always said that but there comes a point when the benefits ( to everyone) outway the risks."

Other than that I agree 100%
--------

I didn't add "To Everyone" to my post because that was not what I was saying so I am very pleased that we agree that although there might be long term side effects to the VAX, there does come a point the benefits outway the risks.

Originally Posted by STF

I don't think it's so much a case of the main steam media or the medical bureaucracy or even the government squashing dissent from anyone, provided that their claims are backed up with solid provable facts and that they're willing to quote their sources.
It's very difficult to get behind the argument of someone that won't provide their source.

It also occurs to me that what you must be suggesting is that every media outlet and every government in the world is deliberately squashing any dissent for the vaccination, every govt in the whole world!
Why would they do that unless every govt in the world thinks the VAX is a good thing.

.

Steve the WH just said point blank they are telling FB and Twitter who to Censor because of "Medical Misinformation" two days ago, FB and Twitter are Worldwide

We saw right here in this Thread the FACT that masks don't work proved by pre 1/1/20 studies called misinformation, and still being touted as true by Alex just yesterday..
The cloth masks that have just been mandated again in LA have been proved to be not only ineffective but actually dangerous yet here we go again, along with the cheerleaders ignoring the "Facts"

Sorry but the Medical Bureaucracy lost all credibility during this when they made political choices (I am not derogating the Drs and Nurses caring for people) that is on them

I can't make you do the searches, but please don't tell me the studies are not there, not backed up by researchers and haven't been censored..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I just don't know what else to say Bob, once you believe that people that don't get vax'd are responsible for killing people, the next step down that road is the use of force to Vax the unwilling..

I understand your posts now

And Book banning/burning is already happening in the US, leftists started that a few years ago
With a fast DDG search I found that Canada also bans some books already

I said that the largest group of people that are currently getting infected are those who are not vaccinated. If the virus is allowed to keep spreading it is likely that a vaccine resistant strain will appear. That happening is more likely statistically to happen in the in the largest group of infected people, the unvaccinated. Under those circumstances you could say they would be then responsible for killing people. That is definitely not the same as saying they are killing people now, only that they have great potential to do so.

Yea, it is interesting to see what books in which countries have been banned over the years. It is just as easy to see which side of the political divide may have done the banning. Some have also had the ban lifted after a period of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_governments

None of that rises to the level of book burning as seen in Germany in the 1930s, which is what I meant by book burning and not book banning. The burning was carried under the auspices the right wing Facist Nazi regime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_b...%20to%20Nazism.

Bob

I saw something today where some right wing nut job is now saying the "Germ Theory" is simply invalid.

All I would say is don't these guys have any shame at all.

I already know the answer.

Please forgive the essay-like nature of the following. I got carried away.

To paraphrase an often repeated observation about scientific models, “ All scientific models are wrong, but some are useful.”

The problem is that most people equate scientific theory with absolute truth. That’s a problem with the folks who seek easy answers to messy questions, not a problem with the scientific community in general.

Virtually every scientific theory has eventually been shown to be incomplete or incorrect, even those that have been extremely useful. In fact, the useful ones continue to be used even after they have been replaced by newer theories that do not have their deficiencies. For example, our street maps tend to be based on an assumption that the earth is flat. For all practical purposes, that works when all you need is to get from point A to point B in a relatively small region. It doesn’t work if you are navigating an aircraft half way around the globe.

So the scientists who were tasked with providing guidance to the response to the COVID-19 virus constructed models. The early models were based on preliminary and incomplete data, some of which later turned out to be falsified. They knew that their models were going to eventually be shown to be wrong, but they also knew that analysing where those models were wrong would provide information about the spread of the virus and provide further insight into how to best react.

Politicians and special interest groups, for example, those who promote a more fundamentalist view of the world, don’t accept that, especially during election years. They want simple answers to complex questions and they want those answers to fit their view of how the world ought to work.

So the health scientists used the data and trend analyses available to them at the time to construct theories to try to determine effective interventions during a pandemic. They knew they might be wrong, but felt obligated to provide advice that reflected the consensus analysis of experts based on what was known about the spread of similar viruses.

The scientists and those in charge who followed their advice became targets for those who want absolute answers to questions for which not enough is known to provide those answers or simply wanted to use the opportunity to push their own agenda. That doesn’t even take into account the conspiracy pushers whose motives escape me.

So the scientific theories were wrong. That was to be expected. They changed as more evidence came in and people had a better understanding of what was happening with the virus. That was to be expected. Do we now have a complete understanding of how the COVID-19 virus and it’s variants work? Of course not, but the models are getting better at predicting what is going to happen and that provides useful guidance about how to avoid catastrophes.

Were/are those theories and models useful? Consider the difference in infection and death rates before and after interventions were implemented based on the recommendations of the health scientists. Look at the same data for regions in which those recommendations were not implemented. I think that data speaks for itself.

We now have the largest ever bank of data for the effectiveness of the various available vaccines. There has never before been a drug trial with so many folks involved or with so much detailed data collected about effectiveness, side effects, duration of protection, etc. Do the vaccinations absolutely prevent infection or reinfection? Of course not, but they do seem to do that for the vast majority of folks who have had the injections. Are the drugs safe? The data suggests they are, certainly much much safer than getting COVID.

Ultimately, everyone makes a decision about how to act based on their own interpretation of available evidence and their own system of beliefs. It’s unfortunate that some folks expect absolute certainty when none is possible.

There is no right answer to the questions about how to best deal with the pandemic. There is only a best possible answer given the circumstances and the available information and that will change as we learn more. So it comes down to how much you trust the advice of the folks who are providing it.

I know whose advice I tend to value and whose advice I will choose to ignore and why.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Steve the WH just said point blank they are telling FB and Twitter who to Censor because of "Medical Misinformation" two days ago, FB and Twitter are Worldwide

We saw right here in this Thread the FACT that masks don't work proved by pre 1/1/20 studies called misinformation, and still being touted as true by Alex just yesterday..
The cloth masks that have just been mandated again in LA have been proved to be not only ineffective but actually dangerous yet here we go again, along with the cheerleaders ignoring the "Facts"

Sorry but the Medical Bureaucracy lost all credibility during this when they made political choices (I am not derogating the Drs and Nurses caring for people) that is on them

I can't make you do the searches, but please don't tell me the studies are not there, not backed up by researchers and haven't been censored..

I have a lot of respect for you and you are one of my honing hero's so I really don't like disagreeing with you Glen, but there is medical vaccine misinformation on FB. There are 12 people on FB spreading all the misinformation which is shared and disseminated by people that don't know any better.
None of those 12 people on FB have solid scientific evidence and none will provide their source so although I am not American I do agree with Biden. Censor the off the wall dangerous rhetoric, in fact find the nuts and imprison them.

I honestly believe that 100 out of 100 of the people that are arguing against the vaccines would drop to their knees and beg the doctors to do something, anything to save their daughters as they are put on a ventilator.

I've been on one twice when I had Legionnaires and I can assure everyone that it's not pleasant - especially if you come around while it's in.

Having said all the above, I am prepared to admit you are right and apologize for doubting you, that has proved to be a mistake regarding honing techniques a few times. All you need to do is show me where your information is coming from so i can read it for myself and if it makes sense to me I will publicly apologize to you, I don't have the time or inclination to start searching for myself, I work from home and have clients that demand my time so if you have it, please show it to me.

Incidentally, as far as search engines go, and I feel qualified as a web developer to say it. Duck Duck Go is not the best search engine, the only thing it has in it's favour is that it's anonymous. Google is not secure and they watch what your searching for to serve you ads etc but they do have a much better search engine than DDG.

If you get the Tor browser you can search the dark web if you really like conspiracy theories.

Originally Posted by STF

I have a lot of respect for you and you are one of my honing hero's so I really don't like disagreeing with you Glen, but there is medical vaccine misinformation on FB. There are 12 people on FB spreading all the misinformation which is shared and disseminated by people that don't know any better.
None of those 12 people on FB have solid scientific evidence and none will provide their source so although I am not American I do agree with Biden. Censor the off the wall dangerous rhetoric, in fact find the nuts and imprison them.

I honestly believe that 100 out of 100 of the people that are arguing against the vaccines would drop to their knees and beg the doctors to do something, anything to save their daughters as they are put on a ventilator.

I've been on one twice when I had Legionnaires and I can assure everyone that it's not pleasant - especially if you come around while it's in.

Having said all the above, I am prepared to admit you are right and apologize for doubting you, that has proved to be a mistake regarding honing techniques a few times. All you need to do is show me where your information is coming from so i can read it for myself and if it makes sense to me I will publicly apologize to you, I don't have the time or inclination to start searching for myself, I work from home and have clients that demand my time so if you have it, please show it to me.

Incidentally, as far as search engines go, and I feel qualified as a web developer to say it. Duck Duck Go is not the best search engine, the only thing it has in it's favour is that it's anonymous. Google is not secure and they watch what your searching for to serve you ads etc but they do have a much better search engine than DDG.

If you get the Tor browser you can search the dark web if you really like conspiracy theories.

Read what you just wrote, and realize you just lost me, we can have no further discussion, like Alex you lashed out because I don't agree with your beliefs in the Media and Medical Bureaucracy
You story of ventilators was a badly veiled threat (Get a Shot or die) which it seems is what you really think ..I even asked that exact question just yesterday and you denied it but it seems that is where you are at with this..


it is what it is and your last little dig made it quite clear that you and I will never agree

"If you get the Tor browser you can search the dark web if you really like conspiracy theories." Pretty much tipped your hand

PS: I have never argued against the Vax regardless of how many times you and Alex try and change my narrative and argue what you choose