Thread: Sad, sad sign of the times...

I've never understood the American attitude to this sort of thing, it's very different in the UK.

There are plenty of UK citizens opposed to the war in Iraq but I can't imagine any of them demonstrating against or even criticizing the members of our armed forces who are fighting. It's not a soldier's choice after all, they are merely doing what their country has asked of them. An anti-war campaign which picked on our soldiers would do themselves a great deal of damage in this country.

On the other hand, it would be very unusual for anybody to accuse someone opposed to the war of being un-patriotic, treasonous or so forth - something which seems to happen all the time in the US. It's perfectly possible to believe that a war is not in the best interests of your country and whilst you might be wrong that doesn't make you a traitor.

Respect your armed forces - they don't chose which wars to fight it's the politicians who do that so save your ire for them.

Respect those who oppose any particular war - at least they are prepared to stand up for what they believe in and they are trying to do the right thing (whether misguided or not).

Originally Posted by trewornan

I've never understood the American attitude to this sort of thing, it's very different in the UK.

There are plenty of UK citizens opposed to the war in Iraq but I can't imagine any of them demonstrating against or even criticizing the members of our armed forces who are fighting. It's not a soldier's choice after all, they are merely doing what their country has asked of them. An anti-war campaign which picked on our soldiers would do themselves a great deal of damage in this country.

On the other hand, it would be very unusual for anybody to accuse someone opposed to the war of being un-patriotic, treasonous or so forth - something which seems to happen all the time in the US. It's perfectly possible to believe that a war is not in the best interests of your country and whilst you might be wrong that doesn't make you a traitor.

Respect your armed forces - they don't chose which wars to fight it's the politicians who do that so save your ire for them.

Respect those who oppose any particular war - at least they are prepared to stand up for what they believe in and they are trying to do the right thing (whether misguided or not).

Nicely presented

Yeah, nice post, trewornan.

You're commenting on what the extremists on both sides of the issue do. For the most part, I strongly dislike hippies and their carrot juice drinking ways. Someone wrote a line above about them burning their own flag, which is a disgusting offense. I agree that you have to support your troops, since they're the ones who protect your country. It's annoying how you see people these days wiping tears from their eyes on Remembrance Day when they see the WWII vets, and yet they'll openly disrespect the modern day soldiers, as though one war made more sense than the other. All war is senseless; soldiers are appointed to try and restore sensibility in some capacity. And as you and the others have said, the soldiers don't pick their wars - they just fight 'em.

Similarly, I don't like the people who are the extreme opposite of the Berkley people. Those who try so hard to be "patriotic," they become ignorant and bigoted. Or maybe they just happened to be raised in a house with those kinds of attitudes and didn't have any choice in the matter. The people who'll tell you they will never change the way they'll vote in any election - future candidates they'll likely vote for haven't even formed their political opinions yet, or been born in some cases, but if they're "the most right", in this person's eyes, they are right - in the "correct" sense this time.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

burning their own flag, which is a disgusting offense

I've never understood this either. I know that if you showed any of my friends a video of someone burning a Union Jack all you'd get is a shrug. Why on earth would anybody care?

Originally Posted by trewornan

...
There are plenty of UK citizens opposed to the war in Iraq but I can't imagine any of them demonstrating against or even criticizing the members of our armed forces who are fighting. It's not a soldier's choice after all, they are merely doing what their country has asked of them.
...

Precisely why I suggested they needed a "wheat-germ brain rinse".

Protesting a political decision by criticizing the military forces is pointless and not too bright. It's a sad reflection on that particular group's logical thinking process.

Originally Posted by trewornan

I've never understood the American attitude to this sort of thing, it's very different in the UK.

There are plenty of UK citizens opposed to the war in Iraq but I can't imagine any of them demonstrating against or even criticizing the members of our armed forces who are fighting. It's not a soldier's choice after all, they are merely doing what their country has asked of them. An anti-war campaign which picked on our soldiers would do themselves a great deal of damage in this country.

On the other hand, it would be very unusual for anybody to accuse someone opposed to the war of being un-patriotic, treasonous or so forth - something which seems to happen all the time in the US. It's perfectly possible to believe that a war is not in the best interests of your country and whilst you might be wrong that doesn't make you a traitor.

Respect your armed forces - they don't chose which wars to fight it's the politicians who do that so save your ire for them.

Respect those who oppose any particular war - at least they are prepared to stand up for what they believe in and they are trying to do the right thing (whether misguided or not).

This is interesting ---- How would British citizens have reacted 100 -200 years ago? How would British citizens have reacted when the concept of never letting the sun set on the British Empire was the philosophy of the day? I just can't imagine people not caring about the Union Jack being disgraced in some way during this period. I'm just curious.

As far as being offended by the burning of a national flag ---I just can't imagine this being something uniquely American. But I suppose the most powerful nation the world has ever known might take itself a little seriously sometimes .

Justin

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

This is interesting ---- How would British citizens have reacted 100 -200 years ago? How would British citizens have reacted when the concept of never letting the sun set on the British Empire was the philosophy of the day? I just can't imagine people not caring about the Union Jack being disgraced in some way during this period. I'm just curious.

As far as being offended by the burning of a national flag ---I just can't imagine this being something uniquely American. But I suppose the most powerful nation the world has ever known might take itself a little seriously sometimes .

Justin

Well obviously I'm a product of my times and can't answer for previous generations but you're probably right, attitudes were very different in 1908 or 1808. Still I think it's a sign of social advance rather than anything else.

Originally Posted by trewornan

Well obviously I'm a product of my times and can't answer for previous generations but you're probably right, attitudes were very different in 1908 or 1808. Still I think it's a sign of social advance rather than anything else.

I guess my point is I think it might be a sign of position in the world --- When the Brits were THE power, they protected that image more then maybe the present generations do ---. If and when the U.S. is no longer the powerhouse that it is, then we probably won't show such signs of national pride either. I'm just thinking here.

From my perspective, it is difficult to imagine someone not being offended by burning a national flag or any other national symbol. I personally wouldn't burn another nation's flag let alone my own ---- if this is something that can be labeled as "American", then I am a little prouder for knowing it.

Justin

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

when the U.S. is no longer the powerhouse that it is

I managed to resist for a while but now I can't help saying something I know will be contentious:

I've got to point out that for all the US's vaunted superpower status, the military has managed to get their ass kicked with monotonous regularity in the last 50 years or so.

Begin flamefest . . .

Just to clear something up, burning the
flag is the proper way to dispose of it, but
along with that goes an honorable ceremony
generally done by a Legion Post or other
organization. Going into your backyard or fireplace
to burn a flag to dispose of it would not be the
way to do it.

John