Thread: Drill here, drill now, pay less!

Originally Posted by Kantian Pragmatist

Do I really have to walk you through what an analogy is? Paying a higher price is like swallowing a bitter pill because both are unpleasant, yet that unpleasantness is needed in order to get better. The "better" that results from higher prices of gasoline is higher motivation to develop viable alternatives. That's what an analogy does, it says thing A is like thing B in certain ways.

I see you have no qualms about Manipulating the public and "for our own good" no doubt! And where does all this manipulation take us as a country? An orwellian society if you ask me!

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

If the oil companies have the option to drill and are not drilling, then why are they pushing to open to open the refuge in Alaska for drilling? I am slow, I don't get it...

(another question I ask hoping someone does not have to take the burden to research, just if you already happen to know is fine )

I don't get it myself, I do know that the reason oil companies turned down essentially free land (old army bases) for refineries was because they were too far from the pipelines, hence my guess as to that being the reason. Could be that drilling on solid ground is cheaper than offshore... I'm just spitballing.

But yeah, I wanna know too.

Originally Posted by Nickelking

I don't get it myself, I do know that the reason oil companies turned down essentially free land (old army bases) for refineries was because they were too far from the pipelines, hence my guess as to that being the reason. Could be that drilling on solid ground is cheaper than offshore... I'm just spitballing.

But yeah, I wanna know too.

Apparently it's the oil companies trying to shift the blame I don't know

Originally Posted by Kantian Pragmatist

What you present is not an analogy, but rather a false dichotomy. It is false because neither of the options you present are plausible or what anybody thinks will happen. If you pay less at the pump, you won't search for the alternative. And nobody's suggested we stop buying oil immediately and sell off what we have to other countries, so I don't know where you're getting that.

I enjoy hyperbole, and I wish you did too

I presented a false dichotomy to match yours. Not drilling now in Anwar has just as much chance of spurring more research than drilling now would. My crystal ball tells me so. I'm taking your suggestion to the extreme - if cutting oil supply helps spur the search for alternative energy sources, then why not cut it off completely and arrive at the alternative energy source now? (To use your "apropos" analogy, why not end the coke and hooker party immediately, since it's so costly and dangerous) Has oil completely lost all of its benefits? If you know what the best balance is between price and supply is, I salute you and aspire to your savvy. I'm just not that smart- yet...

Alternatives are already being sought ought, so why would you think that a lower price at the pump would stop the search for the alternative? I don't understand that. Can you really say with certainty that is the case?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Alternatives are already being sought ought, so why would you think that a lower price at the pump would stop the search for the alternative? I don't understand that. Can you really say with certainty that is the case?

Because it always has.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Because it always has.

j

No it hasn't - I remember gas being $3 three summers ago and in just a few months it was back down to $1.99 here in OK. And research continued. Aren't you just speculating?

Here's a little video. The man's name is Lindsey Williams. I found him hard to listen to due to his dragging out way of speaking, but he has very good info.... and from first hand experience. The video is in 8 parts, start here: gull island - Google Video

Watch the video or read his book:The Energy Non-Crisis by Lindsey Williams

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

No it hasn't - I remember gas being $3 three summers ago and in just a few months it was back down to $1.99 here in OK. And research continued. Aren't you just speculating?

Nope, not speculating at all. Very little meaningful research has gone on, and what has happened has been underfunded, underpromoted, and un-applied. It's all part of the problem with relying on market forces to do everything. Market forces are fine for driving some things, but planning ain't one of them. When prices go down, demand for energy efficiency and alternatives dries up. In the absence of market forces driving change, we go back to SUVs, no impetus for mileage standards, and nothing changes.

I'm anticipating that you'll claim that all kinds of research has happened, but it's not true. We've learned some things -- some might say a lot -- but nothing meaningful has been brought to market. We're still driving with gasoline and making most of our electricity with coal, with no change in sight. We could be energy-independent right now, except for the oil glut that just ended in the past few years. Now, we're at the same old crossroads again, ready to make the same bad decision again. Boom-bust is our future, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Now, we're at the same old crossroads again, ready to make the same bad decision again. Boom-bust is our future, I'm afraid.

Maybe you're right. Might as well drill

hoglahoo <-- (thick-headed)

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Nope, not speculating at all. Very little meaningful research has gone on, and what has happened has been underfunded, underpromoted, and un-applied. It's all part of the problem with relying on market forces to do everything. Market forces are fine for driving some things, but planning ain't one of them. When prices go down, demand for energy efficiency and alternatives dries up. In the absence of market forces driving change, we go back to SUVs, no impetus for mileage standards, and nothing changes.

I'm anticipating that you'll claim that all kinds of research has happened, but it's not true. We've learned some things -- some might say a lot -- but nothing meaningful has been brought to market. We're still driving with gasoline and making most of our electricity with coal, with no change in sight. We could be energy-independent right now, except for the oil glut that just ended in the past few years. Now, we're at the same old crossroads again, ready to make the same bad decision again. Boom-bust is our future, I'm afraid.

I guess we should depend on the government for that as we all know how efficient government is!

Please then, throw your hat in the ring and show them how it's done!...I'm not kidding.