Thread: Supreme Court finds individual right to own guns

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Point in fact: The weapon used in that drive-by was illegal to own in that city and had been for thirty years, that didn't keep some piece of dreck from using it in a reckless manner to kill a little girl.


Somehow I see no connection whatsoever between me going to the range on weekends and your daughters safety. Are you going to let her run around there? Heck living downrange at the firing line near me is probably safer than living in parts of D.C.

The problem is that they can't legislate just for you. They need to figure out the statistics and take their best shot at keeping as many weapons out of the wrong hands while (we hope) letting them remain in the right hands. While gun violence is high, they'll err on the side against us.

Unfortunately, it falls to us to change that calculus.

j

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Not that I don't think training is a good thing or that requiring it would be wrong. I just take issue with requiring it because Then the government would be in charge of who could own a gun, either by limiting the number of courses allowed to be taught, or by charging astronomical costs for them.
...

Point in fact: The weapon used in that drive-by was illegal to own in that city and had been for thirty years, that didn't keep some piece of dreck from using it in a reckless manner to kill a little girl.

Somehow I see no connection whatsoever between me going to the range on weekends and your daughters safety. Are you going to let her run around there? Heck living downrange at the firing line near me is probably safer than living in parts of D.C.

You've illustrated my point better than I could have ever hoped to describe it.

Jim, you've got your work cut out for you. I'm considering adding my voice to John's and Tim's, only louder.

Seriously gentlemen, I was only trying to illustrate the importance of understanding the other perspective.


If you want me to play the game the pointless way;
1) I can guarantee you 100% that neither the recent ruling nor what you advocate will lower the number of illegal guns in the District.
2) Yes, I fully intend to let my kids run around in their little yard and the terrific parks on Capitol Hill. It's a great neighbourhood for kids. - Every single house in my current neighbourhood in Africa has electric fencing and some combination of barbed wire and vicious guard dogs. The US ain't got nuthin on southern Africa when it comes to prolific violent crime. And I have it easy here - check out the stats for Johannesburg.

Sarcasism alert!!!

Pudu, Areyou suggesting that we here in the US may not have the most violent gun totingest society in the world? gosh if I listened to the news I would never know that. every day we are told that we are the most violent country with more crime than anyone else, and this incorrect impression is believed by the world at large.

I bet even your neighbors think they live safer than the people of LA.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Sarcasism alert!!!

...I bet even your neighbors think they live safer than the people of LA.

You bet correctly sir.

Originally Posted by Pudu

When I hear someone say that everyone should be able to do whatever they want with regards to firearms up to the point where they screw up, it frustrates me. "Screwing up" in my neighbourhood likely means someone is dead - and when it's an innocent little girl playing in her front yard it makes you want to do anything to prevent that sort of thing happening, not just punish someone who does it.

pretty sure shooting a little kid is already illegal whether guns are banned or not. clearly, the person that did this was not concerned about anti-murder laws... why the hell would they care about anti-gun laws? which one is worth a nickel in the pen, and which one gets them a nice syringe full of high octane barbituates?

Originally Posted by Pudu

You bet correctly sir.

Which just goes to prove that it is how the media represents us to the world not how we actually are as a culture or what we do that determins the worlds opinion of us.

"Screwing up" in my neighbourhood likely means someone is dead - and when it's an innocent little girl playing in her front yard it makes you want to do anything to prevent that sort of thing happening, not just punish someone who does it.

Pudu


Sir,

I have handled firearms for well over forty years. I have owned guns for almost that long. I have loaded my own ammunition for twenty years. I used to shoot seven to eight pounds of powder per year. That Sir, is an average of over fifty rounds a week.
I have held a Concealed Carry Permit for (I think) fourteen years. In all that time and through all that powder (not counting the Factory ammunition I have shot) I have NEVER injured anyone. I have never had an accident and I have never "Screwed Up." I have trained a lot in gun safety and aside from guns, I am probably the most safety minded person you will run across, for a while.
"Screwing Up" is another way to say "They DIDN'T know what they were doing and they had no business with a gun!" Guns are not to be played with and they are not for making you feel "Macho."
I am a huge supporter of the Second Amendment. But the ownership of a gun caries an awsome responsibility. Every right carries more responsibilities than the freedom the right grants you.
Sure, I have the RIGHT to own a gun. BUT, I have the responsibility to keep it out of unauthorized hands. I have the responsibility to keep it in proper working order. I have the responsibility to handle it in a safe and prudent manner. I have the responsibility to ALWAYS know where it is. I have the responsibility to never and I mean NEVER, when I am carrying it, to let my temper get the best of me. I can't respond to insults as I might like. I have to walk away from a situation that potentially might escalate into violence. My Permit grants me ONE right, the right to Carry Concealed. It carries many responsibilities and restrictions.
TRAINING is the word. You have the right to own a gun, but you also have the responsibility to be properly trained, not only in how it works, but how to SAFELY handle it.
A gun is not malicious. It doesn't have a will. It is a tool...a highly specialized tool and it is entirely subject to the will of it's possessor.

Regards,

Jeeter

But would the common people have the skills? Seriously, how many people in the US know what it means for a machine gun to fire from the open bolt position? How many of them could emplace and lay a howitzer?

I hate the fact that a law abiding person has to justify owning a weapon. I've owned weapons in the past and the only thing I posed a danger to was paper and watermelon (.44 mag does beautiful things to a watermelon).

Cars are way more dangerous than guns and we let pretty much everyone have one of those.

Artilleryo,

My training and experience is in a whole different area than yours. I would be lost trying to "make a Howitzer go."
I am in no way saying a private citizen should have to justify a need for a gun. NO WAY! The fact that the Constitution recognizes that I have a right ought to be good enough for anyone. It is my firmly held belief that with that right, goes heavy responsibility.
I also believe my Driver's License carries an awesome responsibility as well.

Regards,

Jeeter

[Edit]
And I admit that a .44 Magnum can be a lot of fun. I have owned around eight in the last twenty years. It is my favorite caliber.

[Another Edit]
I just counted them up. It is six .44 Magnums and two .44 Specials.

The idea of a bunch of civilians getting into the armory is more funny than scary. An M-16/M-4 is a pretty simple piece of weaponry. Besides, they are crappy weapons anyway. If they can manage to get more than about 30 rounds out without a stovepipe, I'd like to know how they managed.

I think we are pretty much in agreement here though. The government has no reason to fear weapons in the hands of peaceful people. Violent sh**bags will always find ways to kill people.

From a larger perspective, Americans have been lulled into a sense of peace because no one has threatened our borders in a very long time. But it may not always be that way. As a military leader, I find it consoling knowing that invaders will have to deal with armed, pissed off rednecks in addition to the regular military units.