Thread: No conspiracy to blow-up WTC 7

There was a rap group that released (or would have released) their new CD, the day the WTC towers collapsed. Their cover was a picture of them holding a detonator, and the WTC tower collapsing on the background.

So they were in on it too. Otherwise they wouldn't have put that on their album cover, obviously.
Unless coincidence exists of course. In which case some of the other conspiracy arguments lose their weight.

"The architects of the WTC towers designed the towers with a plane crash in mind."
This is technically true, HOWEVER, the towers were designed to withstand an accidental plane crash from planes taking off and landing lost in fog. They were not designed to take a hit from an aircraft at full speed, which is almost triple the velocity. If you can remember your physics, you will know that kinetic energy increases as the square of velocity, so planes flying 3 times as fast have 9 times the kinetic energy!



I recommend questioning everything, 911, the government, your parents, your preacher, and even that loose change documentary. That which withstands rigorous scientific scrutiny is only the truth. That said I do accept the official story, only to the degree we can accept any history.

I recommend taking a look at 911Myths . They have neatly categorized all of the misconceptions and have thoroughly explained and documented what actually happened.

Originally Posted by JMS

I wouldn't assume anything about the members here if I were you!
We have a rather diverse crowd here and I am willing to bet that there are engineers and architects posting in this very thread. I won't assume it though!

I'm a real one Masters in Engineering, Electronics major. And I think Jockeys majored in math.

Structural analysis (strength theory) was one of my minor classes. Though I do not know the equations anymore, I still know enough of the basic principles to assert that if you knock out the load bearing bottom corner of a rectangular building, and heat the remainder of the steel structure, it is likely to collapse.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm a real one Masters in Engineering, Electronics major. And I think Jockeys majored in math.

Structural analysis (strength theory) was one of my minor classes. Though I do not know the equations anymore, I still know enough of the basic principles to assert that if you knock out the load bearing bottom corner of a rectangular building, and heat the remainder of the steel structure, it is likely to collapse.

yep, I sure did. and although I haven't crunched the numbers (the prevailing theory is more than plausible enough for me, I don't really get worked up about that sort of thing) I agree with bruno's analysis. also, to address alex's comment, many airlines have to be going 300+ mph to take off, not kph. a Boeing 767 can fly weighing up to 114 tons (that's over 200,000 kilos) and cruises at 568mph under optimum conditions (913kph) although if you don't care about engine and airframe damage and are descending, you can go faster. (a terrorist bent on suicide doesn't care about damaging the plane, obviously)

using those numbers, we can see that each plane could generate up to 13.1 gigjoules of kinetic energy, which is equivalent to about 3.13 tons of TNT. (so, about 1/300th of 1 kiloton of destructive energy). while this is not enough to completely level a building of that size, it is definitely enough to completely ruin it's structural integrity.

Muslims.... No.... Terrorists. Don't brand religions. Don't be so naive.

You guys should have a good look at how many Americans died in the Twin Towers. You might get a surprise as to how many Americans actually died and how many foreigners died. It might temper you anger when you see who has a right to be angry.

The American emergency services performed a heroic effort to minimize death and many American citizens died in the after mouth of the planes crashing.

A horrible, horrible act of terrorism.

The third building. Well of course the government flattened it because they didn't have anything else on their minds at the time....... Do you really think any Government official has either the intelligence or ability to organize such an event.

Well I've thought hard and long about this. The only way that such an event could have happened is if it was pre planned. In such an event you are actually saying that the US Government masterminded the attack on the TwinTowers.

I don't believe that, I also pray regularly for all of the families in America and elsewhere who suffered the horrors of lost loved ones as a result of terrorism by extremists.

God bless all non terrorists, where ever they may live. I thank God that on that fateful day, I watched the horrors unfold on a television in a hotel lobby in Bombay in India. But I could just as easily have been sitting in one of the Twin Towers in New York. and fallen to my death

It's a very small world and actually, as a general rule, I trust the people of the USA to have integrity and I also trust the US government. Terrorists don't and they invent conspiracy theories.

Yes by all means keep an open mind. But please try and keep it real.

I'm not going to get into what I actually believe about 9-11 and who was behind it, but I will ask these questions. Why was there no crime scene investigation at the largest crime scene of recent times? They just cleaned it all up as quickly as possible, shipped the steel off to China or Korea. They gave us a list of "terrorists hijackers" and blamed Bin Laden within a week. Why did it take years of family members of 9-11 victims families relentlessly pressing for answers to some pretty straight forward questions to get the 9-11 commission? Why did the 9-11 commission only answer a small fraction of the questions these families had about what really happened to their loved ones? Why did the president have to have Cheney with him when being questioned by the 9-11 commission and why could they not testify under oath? Why are thousands of 9-11 first responders dying of respiratory conditions when the EPA said the air was safe to breathe?(check out 9-11 Truth Rising by Alex Jones dedicated to the first responders) If the official story is true, why can't the government answer the legitimate questions posed by victims families, engineers, scientists, and every day average citizens who are all just interested in the truth? If they would just answer some questions instead of running from them, they would look a lot more credible to me.

Dave,

Perhaps they don't know the answers.

It was a tragic event.

Death of a loved one is difficult to handle when normality prevails.

Government officials are only human.

Look at at other tragedies. For example the Sunami.

Do you think people got answers?

The Chinese earthquake. Do you think people will get answers.?

Twin Towers...............Do you think people will get answers?

The next tragedy.........People will not get answers. There are non. It really does not matter how many questions you ask.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

The Empire State Building was hit by a bomber in the 1940s. There was a fire but it didn't collapse. I saw the documentary "Loose Change" and several others and a WTC architect said that they had allowed for a plane hitting the towers. There was also a clip of Larry Silverstein saying that they had decided to "pull" WTC 7. When I look at the video of WTC, I see a controlled demolition. It seems to me that people who don't want to admit the obvious will cling to any straw to avoid having to deal with the consequences of acknowledging what really happened.

Very true and those who have this irrational belief in conspiracies will find them with ease.

The empire state building only had a few floors involved and the plane was smaller, lighter, slower and had far less fuel.

I was Senior Quality Engineer for a major medical device company in Stamford, Connecticut for seventeen years. My main function was to perform failure analyses and complaint investigation for our returned instruments. I was at my desk in Stamford the morning of 9/11/2001 when my secretary laughingly told me, "Some knucklehead just flew a plane into the World Trade Center". I immediatly began watching the news on CNN and called my girlfriend who was in an office in New Jersey from which she could see the towers. Together we lived this series of events with great interest. By the time she watched the second tower fall, Scarlett was crying as she wondered how she was going to get across the Hudson River so we could be together. I was concerned about my brother who had jury duty that morning and was in the Financial District at the time. At 1300 my company sent us home. When I left the office I could smell the smoke from the fires in Manhatten. Stamford was locked down by the state police. TThe train stations in Stamford, Darien, Westport and others along my way home had many cars parked whose owners would not be returning. Being so close to this tragedy gave me cause to research with much detail how such an horrible plan could be carried out with devastating success.

Without going into minute detail I will say that I believe the attacks were planned and executed by the very organized terrorists as reported. The Clinton Administration had gathered enough intelligence to prepare a very detailed report describing Al Qaeda's plan to use hijacked airliners as bombs. Although this report was published in 1995 after Ramzi Yousef was captured in the Phillipines with evidence of the plan. The sad truth seems to be that although the CIA knew of the plan, the information was not shared with other agencies and/or was not taken seriously by the Bush Administration. There is the possibility that it was convenient to ignore the intelligence long enough to "let it happen" thereby providing GWB with some rationale for the invation of Iraq, a plan some believe he wanted to carry out since his dad let Saddam off the hook the first time.

The structural failure of the towers was clearly caused by the severe stresses generated by the impact/explosion and heat from a very large airliner with full fuel tanks crashing into the upper quarter of the buildings. The buildings collapsed vertically because that is the only way they could have collapsed. This was not an intentional demolition "implosion" as someone speculated. This was a collapse caused by the downward blow of the top floors of the building sending an increasingly heavy load onto the floors below. In 1987, I was involved in the recovery efforts in the L'amibiance Plaza Disater in Bridgeport: 9-11 Research: L'Ambiance Plaza That was failure of a construction method known as "lift stack construction". The weight and inertia of the falling upper floors exceed the structural limits of the lower floors and they all ended up pancaked on the ground. The exact same thing occurred with the WTC.

Brad

WTC building 7 was a trapezoid type of structure. The larger side of the building would be heavier and more massive. This is where column 79 was located. NIST claims that column 79 collapsed, leading to the collapse of the whole building. Column 79 was on the larger side of the building. Here's a simplified floor plan:

Column 79 is at the lower left. NIST claims that only column 79 was destroyed in the beginning of the collapse sequence, and because the same side of the building in which 79 was located was the bigger, heavier side of the building, two different influences should have ensured that the building tilted toward the bigger end,building 7 should have tipped towards one side.
I think many folks don't understand just how tough these buildings really are. In 1999 I was involved with testing the structural integrity of the new EPA building in Sacramento. The 14th floor was stress tested by using 500 55 gallon barrels filled with water. They were placed on a large area of open floor space. Over 110 tons was applied to the floor,and it held this weight for 4 hours, it sagged over 2 feet during the test. No failure at all, everything came back into place after completion of the test, and not even a crack in the concrete. Sorry folks, I can't buy the pancake theory of the heat weakened steel. Anyone know if they every explained the traces of thermite that were found.
One thing I do know is that we will never really find out what happened.