Thread: The Large Hadron Collider

I see your point, but really the cold war would have happened with or without those weapons. It was even fought on many levels other than weapons... space, olympics, etc.

This really is a whole other thread though. so I'm gonna back off.

Originally Posted by Nickelking

This really is a whole other thread though. so I'm gonna back off.

Sorry for hijacking your thread. Ciao!

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Objectively speaking (but, of course, I'm interested in other points of view) research into "pure science" starts out as innocent intellectual curiosity and ends up killing people. What have we gained from nuclear physics, so far, besides atomic bombs and nuclear reactors? These huge public science projects are work-fare for scientists so that they'll be available to build the next big weapon (if they don't blow us up by accident along the way).

This type of research is not specifically for weapons.
First of all, there is nothing bad about nuclear reactors. They're our cleanest source of energy right now.

But about the LHC: fundamental physics is about understanding the way the universe works. Quantum theory, relativity, and whatnot are giving us valuable stuff.
Take tunnel diodes. We wouldn't have been able to make them without QT at our disposal. And nowadays they;re part of lots of electronic equipment to compensate for electric resistance.

QT has also given us internet. every high speed backbone uses semiconductor lasers. I worked in a research lab where they invent these things. there are a handful of very smart people in every such lab, solving the QT for their lasers so that they know how to make lasers that do what is needed.
QT has given us a lot over the last years.

And while nuclear weapons are not the best idea ever, they have given use MAD, which kept the world stable at a time when WW3 would have been an option otherwise.

Yes, someone, somewhere might figure out how to build the next scale of weapon from theoretical physics.
But what is the alternative? Putting our fingers in our ears, singing lalalala and hoping that noone else is doing research?
In the end, that kind of knowledge is the only chance we will ever have of surviving the next couple of thousands of years as a species. Because one of these millenia there will be an asteroid hit, or a supervolcano, or some other extinction level event, and if we haven't made if off this mudball by then, it's all over.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

OK, I stand corrected ... and I'm happy for your grandfather, but what's clean about nuclear energy? It's dangerous (Chernobyl) and leaves a lot of waste that we still don't know what to do with.

Chernobyl is what happens if people do stupid things. Like manually disable all safety elements (by removing them or mechanically blocking them), driving the reactor knowingly beyond its design limits, ignoring anybody who argued against it, and then at the very last instant performing an action which was known to increase the reaction first before slowing it, rather than slowing it immediately.

Chernobyl is a sad testament to what happens if people with authority violate every rule in the book, only to see what happens.

As the Americans say: Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

But bruno, there's still a point there despite a poor example. 3 mile island? these accidents do happen.

But then textile factories are a haven of fire, refineries explode, and tankers spill oil into the ocean. A nuclear plant is safe enough to be considered an acceptable risk at their current disaster rate in my opinion.

Brings back fond memories of what I like in rap, I'm not so big on what most make today.

PS: I can't be the only one thinking "Large Hardon Collider" am I?

Originally Posted by Chady

PS: I can't be the only one thinking "Large Hardon Collider" am I?

Sounds kind of gay

I think that whatever comes from this thing will be pretty cool, since I highly doubt a black hole is going to pop out. My faith is enough to let me not worry about that. Here's hoping for some crazy cool technology that let's us have VR video game systems!

Originally Posted by Nickelking

But bruno, there's still a point there despite a poor example. 3 mile island? these accidents do happen.

True. And though the actual pollution of the accident were not that significant, it ruined the image of nuclear power as a source of energy.

But nuclear reactor design has improved greatly over the last decades, and if it is safe enough for the nimitz type carriers and nuclear subs, then it can be safe enough for civilian use.

All I have to say is: HIGGS!!!!!!!!!

That d@*%^ little particle will be one of the biggest steps forward in understanding our existence, I for one CANNOT WAIT!!!!!!!!

Oh, did I mention they'll be able to recreate conditions analogous to those in the first billionths of a second after the birth of the Universe? Because they will.

And about the black holes; yes, it's a possibility, but they will be on the nano-scale or smaller and will not be stable enough to do any damage.

I'm kind of an amateur particle physics enthusiast, so this is more than a little exciting for me.

Just my 2 cents and then I'll be gone. The idea that science and research are bad is not new. Yet without it we wouldn't be having this forum or the computers, or for that matter even the straight razors. We would be grubbing for food.

For that matter I wouldn't be grubbing for food since without the basic science and research my cardiac bypass surgery would never have taken place.

I was working in the nuclear industry at the time of Three Mile Island. I was an uranium exploration geologist and the incident received quite a bit of coverage in the various trade journals. The amount of radiation released was insignificant. The dosage comparison was that it was similar to the radiation you would receive if you worked in a brick building. (How many people know that because of the clay, bricks give off radiation?? Potasium-40). I also recall that the press was severely censored for their coverage. In part that was due to set up photos such as asking everybody to get off the street so that a picture of the "deserted town" could be placed on the front page of the newspapers.

Anyway, science can and will be used for purposes that we might otherwise wish. However, much beneficial progress has been made as an offshoot of war; radar is but one example. Personally, I look forward to the results of the collider. I suspect and hope that breakthroughs in sub-atomic physics will bring radical improvements to our future selves.

OK, done venting - carry on ladies and gentlemen.