Thread: Palin's Choice for VP

Originally Posted by Hutch

All humans are biased, to expect anything different is foolhardy. That's why there should be more than one source, whether be for what you're taught, read, or told. The beauty of education is that it teaches more than singular subject matter, it should teach you how to learn. The populace has become lazy all on its own.

I don't know anyone who's being put to death for knowledge in the US, so pining over the state of the US electorate and comparing it to what went on in Cambodia is really an exercise in excuse making to a monumental proportion.

Okay so you're of the camp that that says we are all whiners involved in a mental recession. I'm making the point that you can have all the education you want, but circumstances outside any individual may develop that will prevent the exercise of that learning. The individual can choose to learn, but they can also choose to act improperly with all that education, and conditions outside the human being also have an impact on what they choose to learn and how they act. My point about Cambodia is that those conditions can be manipulated both internally and externally. You want to keep the argument limited to only what the individual can do.

What you're not choosing to see is that we really agree more than we disagree. Your field of view is smaller or narrower than mine. This is a discussion about a spectrum of behavior and no one person can be extracted from the influences of the whole society they live in. If we acknowledge that perhaps some outside agent can influence individual behavior, then the Cambodian example is the most extreme one I can offer of how a society can exterminate education and suppress behavior. Complete social engineering and reworking the entire educational system of a society will not eliminate the individual mind, but it certainly curtails freedom to act by that individual. It's a very simple example of what you want to deny, that forces outside a person can affect how they learn and act.

It's not as complicated as trying to make the same point by showing how the content of textbooks limits learning choices or say, school prayers, regardless of cosmology, are really the expectation of regimented corporate behavior, as in a showing of public cooperation. Or that attendance in school everyday, on time, eyes open, ears on, is somehow more important to learning than what is going on in their heads. Those are more subtle and a little closer to home.

Where members of this forum stand politically really doesn't matter to me. In fact, I think it is in poor taste to bring up politics in ANY social setting. The media is absolutely leaning LEFT. Gov. Palin is an example of a woman having achieved success by hard work. The smear campaign she is experiencing is a disgrace and shows the downfall of modern journalism.

I will not share my political views. I spent my entire adult life in Emergency Services and am 100% disabled due to Duty-related injuries and consider myself lucky to be alive. I see the world differently than many who advise others on what they should or shouldn't believe in, take part of and talk sh*^ about.

Regardless of your opinion of McCain, Obama and Washington, D.C. in general. It is very obvious that we are a divided country. The venomous treatment of ALL candidates makes me wonder why anyone would seek public office. This is a critical time in our history and I guess we'll all find out the real deal in November.

to all those arguing about median, mean, etc. median is the middle number in a list. so, not quite half above, not quite half below. hutch, i have a degree in math, so what i said was intentional and considered.

i was trying to make a sarcastic point about the usefulness of statistics in cases like these, e.g. just because it is correct doesn't mean it's useful in any way.

sarcasm totally misunderstood, ignore it and move on.

Originally Posted by Lt.Arclight

Where members of this forum stand politically really doesn't matter to me. ...

Regardless of your opinion of ...

The venomous treatment of ...

Lt, pardon me if I stand squarely next to your side. Because of your service, I think you've earned the right to speak up.

While I think politics is okay to talk about, the subject matter often lacks a reasoned approach and devolves rapidly away from the country's business into personalities and camps. My father allowed for passion to be expressed, but expected reasoned discussion about any subject, my mother banned such things over dinner because he had a tendency to throw food when he figured out I had him in the argument.

What offends me the most this year is any good American calling other good Americans evil and getting away with it. Unless he's prepared to indict someone for high crimes and misdimeanors, where they really are evil and judged by a legitimate court to be so, that tactic is as old as 1937.

Originally Posted by jockeys

to all those arguing about median, mean, etc. median is the middle number in a list. so, not quite half above, not quite half below. hutch, i have a degree in math, so what i said was intentional and considered.

i was trying to make a sarcastic point about the usefulness of statistics in cases like these, e.g. just because it is correct doesn't mean it's useful in any way.

sarcasm totally misunderstood, ignore it and move on.

We have, thanks for the permission though

Originally Posted by Lt.Arclight

Where members of this forum stand politically really doesn't matter to me. In fact, I think it is in poor taste to bring up politics in ANY social setting. The media is absolutely leaning LEFT. Gov. Palin is an example of a woman having achieved success by hard work. The smear campaign she is experiencing is a disgrace and shows the downfall of modern journalism.

I will not share my political views. I spent my entire adult life in Emergency Services and am 100% disabled due to Duty-related injuries and consider myself lucky to be alive. I see the world differently than many who advise others on what they should or shouldn't believe in, take part of and talk sh*^ about.

Regardless of your opinion of McCain, Obama n Washington, D.C. in general. It is very obvious that we are a divided country. The venomous treatment of ALL candidates makes me wonder why anyone would seek public office. This is a critical time in our history and I guess we'll all find out the real deal in November.

Couldn't agree with you more, this preoccupation with perfection is ridicules. Most wouldn't subject themselves to this scrutiny.

As for Palin personally I don't see asking basic questions as "a smear campaign". I'd like to know who is she professionally and politically, what has she done professionally and politically, what has she stood for in the past politically, what does she stand for now politically, and what are her views on issues such as health care, education, foreign affairs, defense, trade, and the economy. If asking for answers to those is a "smear campaign" then I guess I want a smear campaign.

Personally I don't care that she's a hockey mom, hunts, fishes, her daughter is pregnant nor the fact that she exercised her right to choose to have her baby with down syndrome or the fact that she is the most popular governor in the country (wow she's been governor of the small state of Alaska and hasn't ****ed that many people off yet in 2 years). Lets get to the "meat and potatoes" because lets face it she's likely to be the next President.

For the "smear campaign" reference personally I think everyone has basically handled her with kid gloves, for fear of looking sexists. The brunt of the criticism that I have seen and heard has more to do with Mc Cain's judgement for picking her and passing over so many others that actually have lots more experience.

If she had ran for President on her own do you thin she'd have been the Republican nominee, I doubt anyone can say yes with a straight face, so why should the American public just accept her, considering Mc Cain's advanced age, and past health problems that do cast doubt on his ability to complete four years let alone 8 years.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Well... gwb got elected. twice.
So 'experience' and 'capabilities' have long since ceased to matter.

They still matter, which is why a lot of people can't figure out how Obama is being considered for the Presidency. He has not even completed one term in the U.S. Senate. Two years after arriving in D.C., he starting running for President! Our past Presidents are typically governors, senators, or generals. As far as I can tell, Palin is no less experienced than Obama where government leadership is concerned

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

They still matter, which is why a lot of people can't figure out how Obama is being considered for the Presidency. He has not even completed one term in the U.S. Senate. Two years after arriving in D.C., he starting running for President! Our past Presidents are typically governors, senators, or generals. As far as I can tell, Palin is no less experienced than Obama where government leadership is concerned

This is such an obvious point, I don't understand why anyone contests it. Anyone that thinks Palin is too inexperienced shouldn't be voting Obama.

Everyone talks about experience but really there is no experience that is even close to being relevant to be the President of the US. If the electorate really thought experience was that important they'd get rid of the constitutional amendment limiting the President to only two terms, then Bill Clinton would most likely still be President.

Originally Posted by loueedacat

This is such an obvious point, I don't understand why anyone contests it. Anyone that thinks Palin is too inexperienced shouldn't be voting Obama.

The difference is subtle but the fact is because Obama has gone through the primaries whether you agree or disagree with his positions on issue we all no what they are. Unfortunately the Republicans have chosen to make this campaign a fluff piece, they talk about all her personal issues, but nobody has heard anything yet from her on what her stand on issues is, or even if she knows what the issues are. The longer we wait to hear this form her, the more it looks like when we do hear it, it's not going to be hear views but those of the handlers.