Thread: Stop the Bailout

Hey Glen, have I got a deal for you! You can buy my portion of the bailout for a measly $10k. What do you think of that! The investment is the offer of a lifetime, don't pass it up.

Pm sent.

Well, it is interesting to see how the definition of these political terms become interwoven with the failed practical implementations or misnomers observed throughout history.

Anyway, if we use that logic to define societal, economic, and political systems, I am sure in light of the current spectacular failure of the world's largest Capitalist system we should be able to refine the definition of Capitalism lickety split! Any takers?

With regards the bail-out, I am no expert on these things but it seems to me a very strange circumstance when the bail-out is directed at the iceberg that punched a hole in the hull.

James.

Actually, neither fascists nor socialists are fundamentally totalitarian. Such a political system is nowhere prescribed in either philosophy.

Both, by the way, are primarily economic systems -- socialist especially so.

Fascism's underlying principle is that the purpose of government is to support business -- underwrite it if necessary.

Socialism's underlying principle is that the means of production should belong not to corporations and individuals, but to the people collectively.

Both run into trouble because fundamental human nature makes them unworkable. Human greed messes things up. Socialism gets into trouble because equality tends to deny liberty, which stifles ambition and greed. (One is good; the other not so much). Fascism has problems because inevitably, the interests of business diverge from that of individuals, and average people find themselves working for the good of plutocrats and oligarchs who exploit them. Socialism has problems because the society devolves into workers and drones (who often are the bureaucrats) and the workers rather resent the situation.

In both cases, the ruling elite finds that to maintain power, they need to suppress dissent and limit individual freedom. But in neither case is that the original purpose.

What we're in right now is a fascist scenario. The government has taken restraint off of capitalists whose greed has driven the economy into the ditch. Now we, the people, have to bail out these crooks before their malfeasance ruins us all. It's a truly hateful situation.

Neither extreme works. If we stifle liberty, the economy stalls. But if we don't control market forces, people are exploited, the environment suffers, and we spend our lives in an endless cycle of boom/bust.

We need balance between the two.

j

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I am not trying to refute your definition of facism, but as it applied to nazi germany I believe it was called the national socialist workers party, the socialist part of this would lead me to believe it was leftist while the national would lead me to believe it was of the right, a marriage of the two. Then there is the actual application of the ideology in real life, Hitler came to power and crawled in bed with the capital/industrial elites and with mutual blessings and cooperation started us on the juggernaut that was WWII and everything that it entails.. Not wanting to start a fight, just clarifying my position.

Just because you call something socialist doesn't make it so. What about the German Democratic Republic, which was East Germany, I don't remember it being very democratic?

RIP : Constitutional Rights in the USA -- You are all now debt slaves.
Final betrayal : Having given up your money to Wall Street, you will find your savings also being destroyed.
Those who give up their civil rights for capital gain deserve neither.

Dow Jones index and Dollar are already dropping after the YES vote. I am at a loss. As a person that has the misfortune of living in America I see all that the founding fathers had fought for today taken away.

These men are the worst of society; they are the most vile, hateful, and greedy. They represent not the American people, but their own desires. History has told their tale many times but in the enforced ignorance of the public school system they have taught our children how NOT to be able to identify them.

In the past America was great because they held within their grasp the right of self-determination. No longer. Our leaders would like us to believe that Muslims are responsible for the majority of 'terrorism' in the world. I say NO. The same men that used the events of that day in Sept. have struck again bringing America to its knees, destroying whatever hope remained of this country returning to its former 'glory'.

Today is a day of mourning the death of liberty and freedom in America. The doors of fascism will soon swing wide open and remove the last vestiges of what was once the United States of America.

RIP America

Originally Posted by denmason

RIP America

If you want hope and change, vote Obama '08

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

If you want hope and change, vote Obama '08

To lead us further down the primrose path! Not that McCain would be much better but much slower!

Hope is for people who have no faith left.

Originally Posted by denmason

Hope is for people who have no faith left.

Actually, you have it exactly backwards.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Actually, you have it exactly backwards.

j

No Jim, he's got it right!