Thread: Palin vs Biden!

Well, in the afterglow of polite repetitious banter, one good thing came out of this debacle, excuse me, debate. They're not the main runners for the job. Now the not so good news; the two main runners. Heaven helps us cause it looks like we're not getting help anyplace else.

Lee

Originally Posted by WireBeard

I had flashes of nausea from last week's debate.

I thought Palin did much better than any of her interviews. Biden was very restrained and stayed on point.

When Palin started getting out of her comfort zone, she began replying with coached talking points - it was obvious from the verbiage. Also, the switching for standard American English to "folksy" talk was annoying....and a bit condescending. Going from "We are going to change..." in one sentence to "We're gonna git busy makin' things better" in another made is sound like she was doing imitations. She has trouble stringing sentences together and having them make grammatical sense (thus being able to be understood). One other point - the word is "nuclear" not "nucular"....but at least she didn't use "irregardless". The bug-eyed facial expressions the her changing her tone of voice when she was making a point was very odd...I expected her to jump into baby-talk any moment.

She was definitely struggling with Foreign Affairs. And I'm not sure what war she meant when she said McCain knows how to win a war.....

Biden started falling back into "facts and figures" to support his points. He also switched into Senate-ese at several points during his responses. I am sure tomorrow the fact checkers will be pointing out where he "forgot" how he voted on certain things. He didn't look at the camera much in the first half and semed to be fiddling with his podium or papers on it. Also, you could hear him sighing a couple times in response to Palin's replies. He followed Palin's lead and started in with the "back in my hometown" or "on my main street", etc. Do either of them actually think any cogniscent person considers them an "average person"? Biden seemed to go on the defensive when issues came up about his voting record.

Both of them brought up personal family difficulties, be it a special-needs kid, a deceased wife/daughter - I thought it was a bit melodramitic...right up there with the veterans' bracelet exchange by McCain and Obama.

Both had trouble answering the questions - or outright refused to do so - instead choosing to keep on the previous topic/beating a dead horse. Biden made a point of telling the moderator he was going back to another topic, Palin asked if it was ok...then both of them rambled on, repeating both themselves - and in some instances - their principles almost word for word.

They both were playing "buzz-word bingo" when they needed to fill in their comments:

When I was mayor....
In my hometown....
Main Street....
Nonpartisan
Maverick
At the kitchen table....
Back in Wilmington...
The middle class family...
Energy-producing state...

I can't say who won...Biden stayed on topic more without repeating talking points, but Palin engaged the camera more.

I can say who lost: I think we all will in November, regardless of who wins.

LPJ, you have Thor's Hammer in your avatar...you can fix this!

Neither candidate seems to get it. When they were talking about families sitting around the kitchen table wondering what to do about healthcare:

I understand, as well as, with all due respect, the governor or anybody else, what it's like for those people sitting around that kitchen table. And guess what? They're looking for help. They're looking for help. They're not looking for more of the same.

So where are they looking for their help? The government of course? The great Charity, the new Church-state which forces offerings from everyone to redistribute as they see fit to solve everyone's problems. Please leave my kitchen table out of this, is nothing sacred to the politicians!?!? Get out of my house!

Anyway, I only listened to about 5 minutes straight of the debate, and this took the cake:

IFILL: Everybody gets extra credit tonight. We're going to move on to the next question. Governor, you said in July that someone would have to explain to you exactly what it is the vice president does every day. You, senator, said you would not be vice president under any circumstances. Now maybe this was just what was going on at the time. But tell us now, looking forward, what it is you think the vice presidency is worth now.
PALIN: In my comment there, it was a lame attempt at a joke and yours was a lame attempt at a joke, too, I guess, because nobody got it. Of course we know what a vice president does.
BIDEN: They didn't get yours or mine? Which one didn't they get?

HAHA! And Biden, icing on the cake,

Oh, and one more if you'll allow me, this is great:

IFILL: Your conventional wisdom against you is that your Achilles heel is that you lack discipline, Sen. Biden. ... What is it really for you, Sen. Biden? Start with you, governor.
...
BIDEN: You're very kind suggesting my only Achilles Heel is my lack of discipline.
Others talk about my excessive passion. I'm not going to change.

I have other achilles' heels, but it doesn't matter; I'm not going to change. Even though that's what my whole campaign is based on - I don't need to change, it's everyone else that needs to change.

Originally Posted by denmason

I think I threw up in my mouth when I heard Palin get all wet because her and Biden both love Israel. WTF.

OH S#!T!!!!! AMAZING DENNIS, AMAZING...

Anyway, now that I almost stopped laughing, it was a very predictable debate. Palin had so many scripted answers it was like she was answering the imaginary questions in her head. Yes, Gwen didn't do much to help the debate. I think it is a shame how people will probably look at this- that Palin did a good job considering... If that is the current view of what a good job is, I must be Jesus Christ... not that he existed.

Palin made no noticeable gaffes-which is what people were focused upon. She did fine-she could have done better. Loose the bangs.

Biden gave a good performance, overall. He showed a command of facts, but we will see how those facts hold up under investigation. Spends a lot of time at the Home Depot, does he?
Ifill did fine as moderator. Perhaps because she was in the spotlight.

All I saw were two politicians blowing smoke to cover their tracks and evade responsibility for the way things are while trying to place blame on their opponent. It also sounded like Palin had co-opted Obamas platform of "Change". To paraphrase the Dickens character Tiny Tim "God help us one and all!"

Originally Posted by denmason

Biden seemed to be totally infatuated with Gov. Palin...I was able to force myself to watch the last 15 minutes after getting sick from the 1st hour. They put on a good show but that's it folks. You need to make a serious life decision here. Are they for us or against us?!? I think I threw up in my mouth when I heard Palin get all wet because her and Biden both love Israel. WTF. Which country are they running for office in? That hair in the eye thing bugs me too...

Yes, they both love Israel. Good for them. I sat through it and got exactly what I expected from both of them. Promises they are not legally capable of keeping, half truths about their opponents on the negative side, and half truths about themselves on a positive side. Palin seemed to be incapable of remembering what the question was, Biden incapable of explaining exactly what "change" means. Are they for us? Of course not; they're for themselves first and foremost. I don't remember when the thought first came to me, but it's been years and years, and hit me like a bolt: Decent people do not run for office. They are too busy trying to work a job and raise a family. As for Biden's "This is the most important election you'll ever vote in" crap, HA! A little full of ourselves, sir? Sorry, bud, I remember Carter's administration, and you, sir, are no Mondale. I am glad to hear that Palin seems to be against NEW-QU-LAR war, but I'm not quite sure what that is. Ugh. I can't believe in a country of over 300 million, this is what we've decided to settle on. Long opinion short... neither one did anything to impress me or change my opinion. I did agree with something Biden said about the Bush administration, but it was so insignificant in the overall that I've already forgotten what it was.

My friend, if you will allow;

It is for us all to remember (and I believe you do) that the ballot is stronger than the bullet, or in this case, the hammer. Would that a few whacks to the head would do a lot of politicians good, to be sure. But would it ultimately change their mind or just dull their will to speak it? We should consider the definition of a politician; one who compresses the most words into the smallest idea of any man. If we could really learn about the men behind the words in their speeches, and what they are truly capable of, in spite of what they will be allowed to do, we would all sleep less secure tonite and tomorrow.

Lee

They were both solid. They both stuck to their guns, they both did a decent (not great) job of articulating the difference between the parties. I think it probably helped McCain more because it really trashed the idea that she simply can't keep up, but that's more because it rebutted an unfair perception than because she did any better than Biden. But I think ultimately who you think did better depends on whose views you agree with, which means they both did their job.

I'm voting McCain, but in both debates I thought that both sets of candidates were better than usual, and none of the four make me wince. I think we'll be in good hands whoever wins, although the approaches will be very different.

I also think Palin is very talented and will grow into a real force, so I'm not overly worried about McCain dying because as long as he isn't too quick about it she'll find her groove.

One thing that was interesting was the weird gay rights section - I thought Palin was completely honest and appropriate - she's not for it but she knows its out there and doesn't want to get in the way of adults doing what they want. I'm not sure Biden was being honest when he said Obama doesn't favor gay marriage. Glad to see both sides espousing tolerance, but I was more impressed with Palin's honesty even though I have no problem with gay marriage.

Originally Posted by maplemaker

Promises they are not legally capable of keeping, half truths about their opponents on the negative side, and half truths about themselves on a positive side.

Yeah, that seems what politics is these days and it is my opinion that this is the the exact result that the political system ought to produce. If you want better result, better think of a different political system.

Originally Posted by maplemaker

Palin seemed to be incapable of remembering what the question was, Biden incapable of explaining exactly what "change" means. Are they for us? Of course not; they're for themselves first and foremost.

I would argue that 'us' is a rather amorphous entity. They are most certainly for some sort of 'us'. It seems to me that most politicians are indeed interested in actually improving the well being of the people. Of course they have to try and keep their job like anybody else. You can accuse almost every single person that what they do is motivated by self-interest. But of course in politics as in real life it's not black and white.

Now on the subject Palin vs Biden. To me it was clear that Biden was at least on the level that the job supposes. He had substance on a variety of topics. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant. He could formulate positions and policies and present facts.
Sadly Palin just confirmed the impression that her past interviews left me with. Which is that just about the only thing she can debate is energy supply from Alaska, which seems to be the only policy she has any hands on experience with. On any other subject she just blurted out canned responses of talking points that she seems to have been rehearsed on. In my book this is called incompetence.
McCain should've picked somebody else and let her mature as a politician before she can run on the national scene. Moreover she should've had the good judgement to politely refuse the job. She is way out of her league. She hasn't even thought about these things and some are rather important.
I thought her response on "these decisions show McCain's bad judgement" with "well, everybody knows he is a maverick and a hero, therefore his judgement is perfect" was just ludircrous.

Good impression is not something she left with me.