Thread: Freedom of Speech

Originally Posted by jockeys

I'm free to deny historical events. I can accuse the gov't of faking the moon landing, and I'm free to say the Holocaust didn't happen. People will think I'm loony, but I'm free to do so without fear of retribution. As long as my speech hurts feelings and not people or property, I'm free to be a hateful asshole.

That's what the First Amendment means to me. The freedom to be a dick to everyone. The freedom to tell an elected leader that he's an incompetent douche that couldn't find his own ass with both hands, and not have to worry about the gov't jailing me for dissent. The freedom to have my own opinions, no matter how controversial, and air them publicly. The freedom to give children the middle finger. The freedom to roll down my window and tell other drivers EXACTLY what I think of their driving skill.

Or the freedom to keep my mouth shut and not make waves. It's my choice.

Sometimes I could swear you've got a VPN straight into my brain

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Yeah, I agree with that part. What I was trying get at is that there are industries, such as the media, where you can ruin your career if you don't toe the corporate line. Here is a blog posting, on Mondoweiss, that talks about it:

M.J. Rosenberg on the 'serious career risks' in criticizing Israel

OK, now I am starting to wonder here, man. Is that ALL you talk about? You are welcome to your views, of course. But really, the amount of time and energy you dedicate to anti-Israel, anti-Jewish topics on a SHAVING board is amazing.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

Sometimes I could swear you've got a VPN straight into my brain

shh, don't talk about it or everyone will be wanting one

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

OK, now I am starting to wonder here, man. Is that ALL you talk about? You are welcome to your views, of course. But really, the amount of time and energy you dedicate to anti-Israel, anti-Jewish topics on a SHAVING board is amazing.

It is true that it is the subject I care about most, right now. But give me a break, I was using it as an example of where free expression is squelched. I came across it because I was reading about Israel, but that is not the focus of my point.

Originally Posted by jockeys

No, I mean "free" as in no one can stop me. I listed specific examples and which ones I can be punished for, under the laws where I live.

To wit:
hurting people and property = punishable
hurting feelings and offending peoples' religious or moral sensibilities = not punishable

Thus hate speech (a ridiculous term if one ever was) is allowed, as long as I do not explicity issue a call to action to harm people or property.

Simply because you have the ability to blurt things out of your mouth doesn't mean you can do it freely. You have the same ability to push an old lady in front of a bus. Does that mean you are free to do so?Once you do say things that are libelous, threatening or inciteful it may very well cost you when you get arrested.

Originally Posted by jockeys

No, I mean "free" as in no one can stop me. I listed specific examples and which ones I can be punished for, under the laws where I live.

To wit:
hurting people and property = punishable
hurting feelings and offending peoples' religious or moral sensibilities = not punishable

Thus hate speech (a ridiculous term if one ever was meh, IDK, seems to have a niche.) is allowed, as long as I do not explicity issue a call to action to harm people or property.

Originally Posted by icedog

Simply because you have the ability to blurt things out of your mouth doesn't mean you can do it freely. You have the same ability to push an old lady in front of a bus. Does that mean you are free to do so?Once you do say things that are libelous, threatening or inciteful it may very well cost you when you get arrested.

Uhhh. It looks like you guys are on the same page. Libel and Slander suits are not criminal, they are civil and damages must be proven to exist for them to be fruitful for the plaintiff. Threatening communication may be criminally actionable depending on the circumstances. In the end all of these actions conspire to "hurt" in a measurable way. Did I miss something? It just seems like you are both saying the same thing.

-Rob

Originally Posted by sicboater

It just seems like you are both saying the same thing.

-Rob

That may very well be but I say it better and that makes me righter.

When you work for a private entity you do so at the whim of the owner. There are certain protections like EEO provisions or if your fired for cause you can sue however if your boss doesn't like the way you part your hair or the kind of tie you wear your history.

Originally Posted by icedog

That may very well be but I say it better and that makes me righter.

Thanks

+1

Rep.

Just to clarify, I did not compare what is happening in Israel right now with the holocaust. and I have met and heard people get upset over the use of that term in discussing Bosnia, the kurds, parts of Africa where racial cleansing has and is being attempted.

I won't way into that debate at all. I don't know all the history. I just know this

1. I understand when somebody starts attacking you unprovoked, and in the dirty underhanded sneaky immoral nasty way they do with suicide bombs and such, the need to send a message. just like some poeple think cutting of somebodies hand for stealing is wrong. no, it isn't. in the US there is no excuse for stealing, nobody goes hungry except by choice. it sends a message. if you do this then we will do this. sadly people just aren't catching on. people need to nut up, when they fear what the other guy will do more than the terrorists using them for cover they'll start fighting back. same reason, IMO, we have so much problem with the bomb attacks in Iraq. anyways, without getting too far into it.

2. somebody made a comment about them thinking Israeli lives were worth more than the palestinians lives. Personally I'm of the opinion that people in charge of safeguarding the lives of their nation should always feel their lives are more valuable. the president should believe American lives are more valuable, the Israeli prime minister should think Israeli's more valuable etc. I think it is the only way they can make decisions that best carry out their job, protecting THEIR countrymen. don't you wish sometimes that it was that way in Iraq? that somebody making decisions said, "hey, our guys lives are just too valuable to be putting them down there like that."

But this is first amendment thread, not warfare or foreign policy.

Red