Thread: Contrails/Chemtrails from jets

Great coincidence; I was watching two jets today at very high altitudes and made a mental note to ask some additional questions about chemtrails. I get home and find that my post was added to today.

Here's my question to those who may know. Please explain the following:

These two separate jets were flying at very high altitude in proximity of a National Guard Air base in northern MN. I noticed them both because simultaneously, the chemtrails just started; completely absent, to full on. I'll use a technical aviation term here: They were way way up in the sky. I know it's impossible to judge their speed from viewing them from the ground, but once the chemtrails started, they didn't seem to be going any faster.

So................both jets (the looked like bigger jet planes and not fighter jets) crossed into a layer of the atmosphere that had such an abrupt change in temp that the full on from nothing chemtrails just appeared? Any thoughts?

I'd like to add that I stand by my original statement in this thread that I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist and I'm certainly not convinced that there are nefarious activities being perpetuated on innocent non-consenting citizens by the government. But I'm sorry, I just have to say that my gut says any explanation some seem to give that chemtrails are probably just the type of fuel/cheaper fuel, ascent or decent into different layers and/or temps in the atmosphere is B.S.

I fully admit I'm an ignoramus when it comes to this stuff. But if something as straight forward as attempting to monkey with weather patterns was for example the reasons for in effect, creating artificial cloud cover, I'd wish the government would just say; "yeah, we're trying to influence weather patterns.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Here's my question: Why is it that I can not recall seeing contrails/chemtrails from commercial passenger carrying jet liners?
Chris L

I take landscape photos early in the morning and I see them all the time from private aircraft, more than I would like.


Later,
R

ChrisL, to answer your question, yes, they may have climbed a few feet higher, and it started. the atmosphere has layers, very similar to thermocline layers in the ocean.
As for influencing weather, that is done, has been done, and is well known in some circles to kinda work. problem is that it is very expensive for not as much benefit as some would like. but many places seed clouds to prevent huge hail, and other phenomena. mostly done with regular commercial ag spray planes with pilots wearing O2 masks.

Originally Posted by riooso

I take landscape photos early in the morning and I see them all the time from private aircraft, more than I would like.


Later,
R

I notice them more on the approach of a frontal weather system. if its sunny and rain is forecasted for the next day, they seem to form the most

Originally Posted by GadgetGeek

ChrisL, to answer your question, yes, they may have climbed a few feet higher, and it started. the atmosphere has layers, very similar to thermocline layers in the ocean.

That would explain a funny contrail I saw the other evening. It started and ended within a relatively short length, i.e. did not stretch across the sky, and certainly could not be traced to a jet, which had presumably long gone. It was as if the trail was much longer but just this section survived. It floated slowly across a completely clear sky for many minutes. I came to the conclusion that that 'section of sky' must have different atmospherics, but the section of course could be higher/lower, not just lateral as it appears from the ground.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

...I'd like to add that I stand by my original statement in this thread that I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist and I'm certainly not convinced that there are nefarious activities being perpetuated on innocent non-consenting citizens by the government...

Then you should stop calling them "chemtrails" since you don't have any evidence that would contradict the fact that they are actually CONtrails, as in condensation trails.

I hate to sound like a jerk here, but really, jet aircraft exhaust is hot and full of water vapor. It's not really surprising that they leave trails in the sky. The fact that they seem more common today is not proof that they are more common today. It has more to do with the fact that you weren't paying attention before. I have known adults (in their 50s, no less) who were surprised to find out that the moon was not visible every night, and was sometimes visible during the day, so it's not outside the relm of possibilities that you weren't paying attention to the number and duration of contrails untill recently. Naturally, they will seem more common once you start paying attention.

And even if they are more common today than ten years ago, I would be willing to bet that there is more air traffic in the sky today than a decade ago. I would also point out that jet engines have become more efficient. That could also lead to a change in the frequency and duration of contrails.

The real question that I have not seen answered is whether or not there has been an increase in the number of contrails not directly related to the increase in the ammount of air traffic. Once someone answers THAT very critical question, then you may feel free to speculate on the composition of trails left in the sky.

in the last thirty years of commercial aviation we have seen many changes in engine technology, fuels, airframes, and so forth, I'd think that anyone would be hard pressed to correlate all of these variables to any increase/ decrease of contrails. To muddy the waters further, are the trails left from the engine, or merely from the passage of the aircraft though the air? both happen, depending on a lot of factors, so really, how will we ever know?
Joe, there is a word for what you mentioned, I can't think of it at the moment, but its true, everyone has noticed something, and then seen it everywhere, as if it had not existed, and then suddenly was prevalent. its a normal part of how the brain works.

Originally Posted by GadgetGeek

Joe, there is a word for what you mentioned, I can't think of it at the moment, but its true, everyone has noticed something, and then seen it everywhere, as if it had not existed, and then suddenly was prevalent. its a normal part of how the brain works.

Confirmation bias?

Originally Posted by GadgetGeek

...To muddy the waters further, are the trails left from the engine, or merely from the passage of the aircraft though the air? both happen, depending on a lot of factors, so really, how will we ever know?
...

Hot engine exhaust will leave condensation in cold air. Even piston engines will leave a contrail in the right conditions. If you look at a some photos from the Second World War, you will find plenty of photos of high altitude bombers and fighters leaving contrails.



Vapor trails left by wing vortecies and pressure waves are very short lived (less than a few seconds, in most cases, as they are caused by pressure changes which dissapate quickly as the aircraft passes). The persistant vapor trails are left by engine exhaust.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Great coincidence; I was watching two jets today at very high altitudes and made a mental note to ask some additional questions about chemtrails. I get home and find that my post was added to today.

Here's my question to those who may know. Please explain the following:

These two separate jets were flying at very high altitude in proximity of a National Guard Air base in northern MN. I noticed them both because simultaneously, the chemtrails just started; completely absent, to full on. I'll use a technical aviation term here: They were way way up in the sky. I know it's impossible to judge their speed from viewing them from the ground, but once the chemtrails started, they didn't seem to be going any faster.

So................both jets (the looked like bigger jet planes and not fighter jets) crossed into a layer of the atmosphere that had such an abrupt change in temp that the full on from nothing chemtrails just appeared? Any thoughts?

I'd like to add that I stand by my original statement in this thread that I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist and I'm certainly not convinced that there are nefarious activities being perpetuated on innocent non-consenting citizens by the government. But I'm sorry, I just have to say that my gut says any explanation some seem to give that chemtrails are probably just the type of fuel/cheaper fuel, ascent or decent into different layers and/or temps in the atmosphere is B.S.

I fully admit I'm an ignoramus when it comes to this stuff. But if something as straight forward as attempting to monkey with weather patterns was for example the reasons for in effect, creating artificial cloud cover, I'd wish the government would just say; "yeah, we're trying to influence weather patterns.

Chris L

I agree with you here. I just can't stand Alex Jones and his cronies making a buck off the paranoia of some. The goverment has admitted to several arial spraying programs. Mostly for weather modifications. I've even seen a documentary from germany where the german goverment said the unusual contrails had a chemical mixture in the fuel so that it would block out the radar of anyone using it against them. Who know's if that is the truth. I don't buy the whole temperature thing either from what I have observed from my own eyes, and what I have been taught in thermodynamics. At that altitude and temperature jet exhaust can not stay at that temperature for more that 30 seconds. So I'm assuming it is something in the fuel. Notice how every new additive in our fuel to keep our engines running clean have the formula for H2O in it. There watering down our fuel. I'm sure it carries over to the jets as well. Icing I can believe but hot temperatures are not possible for that long unless the laws of physics change. I have even heard global warming crowd claim it is reflecting the sun back out to save the planet. I have seen some correlation to the heavy cloud cover by jets on days the radio and television talk about the solar flares from the sun. But all in all, I can come to only one conclusion that everyone is trying to sell me one way or another on this and no one has any concrete evidence either way. Good luck in your pursuits on this one as I have written this off for never being shown good scientific evidence either way.