Thread: Rep. Joe Wilson apologized.

I can't quote or link to any articles but I would like to add what I heard on the radio a couple days ago regarding the topic at hand. As I understand it, there are currently undocumented immigrants currently taking advantage of Medicaid. It is also likely to continue. The system was initially structured to require proof of citizenship. When the rubber hit the road, it was learned that there are a large number of people who cannot prrove their citizenship. Sadly, the reality of the situation is the people who need the program most are elderly infirmed and not surprisingly there are many elderly infirmed who have no proof of their citizenship and no way to (realistically) obtain that proof. After several deaths of people who were denied care because they could not proove they were U.S. citizens, the regulation was relaxed. Naturally, there are always going to be people who will bilk any system they can for as much as they can.

I voted no he should not have apologized however I don't think it was an appropriate method time or place to make the remark, however if you are going to do something like that then stand up be a man and say yes I said it and yes I mean it, despite what he may say now I doubt that was not a carefully premeditated action and a spur of the moment occurance.

Seems to me whether it is this or baseball players using steroids or whatever the general consensus has become apologize and everything is ok, what ever happened to being responsible for your actions?

Not taking sides on the deeper issues just on the apology.

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

I'm not entirely sure if that was completely sincere, sarcastic or a little of both.

There is a lot of truth to the notion that the government sees all of us as "sheeple" but I think that allowing it is a slippery slope.

I have no problem with having these sorts of consultations paid, and if they were mandatory, I'd be okay with that too.

However, it's important that each time something like this comes up, people carefully examine it. There certainly are those in politics today who would gladly have the government completely run the lives of the average american.

No Steve unfortunately I think you hit the nail dead square on the head...

As some of you know I actually see people's true standings ever single day, that's all I do is look at credit reports
What I see first off is a true cross section EXCEPT this area is 98% white, there are just not a ton of people of color in Nth Idaho...

One thing I will say is this, and it is just what I see...
I of course see the people living on their credit cards who will never climb out of debt, and the student loans that cripple people for 10 years, Divorce and Business Bankruptices...
In the front of the report is the "Unpaids" section this tells me very quickly about bills and debts that are/were in collections... I would guess that higher than 75% of those are Medical...

So I agree that there is a huge problem, but I do not agree that this is the way to solve it... We just can't keep piling people on the cart and dragging them, some of them need to get off and help push...

Also I have a question of our friends overseas???

Now if I were in your country, visiting, talking about razors, and I had an Appendicitis attack and needed to be rushed to the hospital... What happens???? who pays.. I guess this is more to you guys who live in countries that have Social Medicine???

Originally Posted by icedog

When the rubber hit the road, it was learned that there are a large number of people who cannot prrove their citizenship.

Right, this I think is large part of the issue. The current situation is
- americans have not been interested in enforcing the borders for decades
- americans are against the federal government issue them and then require them to carry a proof of citizenship.
- americans are not comfortable leaving ill/sick human beings to suffer even if they are illegal residents

as far as I can tell you can't really change the situation without changing all of these.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now if I were in your country, visiting, talking about razors, and I had an Appendicitis attack and needed to be rushed to the hospital... What happens???? who pays.. I guess this is more to you guys who live in countries that have Social Medicine???

I can only speak anecdotally about the what happens. We acquired a company in Strasbourg, France and an associate was sent to help set up their I.T. equipment. While over there he severely sprained his ankle, went to the hospital (thinking it was broken), and was treated for free. Now, he also said that the hospital made him a bit leery, but he got his X-ray, an air cast and some crutches with no hassle, no cost, and no proof of citizenship. His cost was waiting for, IIRC, two hours.

Of course he had it checked out when he came back and did rehab over here, mostly (but not entirely) reimbursed by insurance.

I can't explain enough that even if you're not a citizen in America and you go to the emergency room, you will be treated regardless of whether or not you can pay for it.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now if I were in your country, visiting, talking about razors, and I had an Appendicitis attack and needed to be rushed to the hospital... What happens???? who pays.. I guess this is more to you guys who live in countries that have Social Medicine???

I have not used the health system in my country when I've been there recently, but along with the plastic card aetna gives me a piece of paper with collect numbers to call when I'm abroad. I am pretty sure you get at least an emergency level of health care no matter what.
I mean look at the effort and expense the US government would go to take an american citizen out of prison in a foreign country. You'll be fine.

a pro tattooer friend of mine has lived in Spain and France for years now. He was illegal in France and got sick enough to be hospitalized and was treated at no cost. He is now in the process of becoming legal. Not changing citizenship but just becoming legal.

If you want to know what the policy is here in the USA then go to any Home Depot anywhere in the USA and within a quarter mile of the place you will see numerous illegals standing on the curb in groups waiting for a contractor or home owner to pick them up for day labor.

Ask around, some of them may tell you what the deal is.

My closest friend Ray was visiting his inlaws in Denmark. He tripped, fell down and broke a few bones in his left hand. He went to a hospital where he was welcomed with just his passport. He was examined, medicated for the pain and x-rayed. They set his hand and put a cast on it. As he was being given his instructions for care and follow-up, he asked if his American health insurance would cover the bill. As the nurse gave him a written copy of the instructions and a bottle of pain meds, she laughed and said, "there is no charge for medical care here." Ray asked if that was because he was a foreign visitor and she told him, "No, no one pays for medical care in Denmark. It comes from our taxes."

Apparently other countries can make it work.

I'm with Bruno on this one. It is a matter of respect and good manners. Full stop. Whether it be the President addressing Congress, a mother talking to her family, or anything else you care to name. A genuine and sincere apology when the situation demands it shows strength of character in my book.

James.

Originally Posted by gugi

- americans are not comfortable leaving ill/sick human beings to suffer even if they are illegal residents

Indeed, not just Americans. Any civilised society should not feel comfortable leaving the sick to suffer no matter what their status.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now if I were in your country, visiting, talking about razors, and I had an Appendicitis attack and needed to be rushed to the hospital... What happens???? who pays.. I guess this is more to you guys who live in countries that have Social Medicine???

We are all fellow humans. If you were to fall sick or get hurt in the UK, I am proud to know you would receive care irrespective of your status as a tourist/immigrant or ability to pay, or even your own government's policy if I were to fall ill in the USA. And yes, I'm happy for my taxes to pay for you as an individual should you need it as a visitor to my homeland. Even if you were an illegal immigrant -- I'd hope you'd eventually be sent home, but in the meantime I wouldn't want to see you die or suffer for want of treatment.

And if you don't recognise the argument about civilised societies, then even looking at what's fair in terms of hard cash spent it's a no-brainer. I presume when you travel here you spend money. As a tourist maybe. Or on business. Either way, you're bringing money, cash and possibly foreign investment to the UK. I figure providing free emergency healthcare to visitors while they are here is like looking after the goose that lays golden eggs. On the other hand, leaving them to suffer, die, etc... well, ain't good for the country's brand.

P.S. Europeans have a form to fill when travelling within the EU which means they get all the free care they need and the visitor's government will pick up the tab later with paperwork. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a similar system/form for EU travellers to the US.