Thread: Christmas poll

The trouble with calling the new testament a history book is that the bible as it is now is a scattering of texts from divergent time periods, picked over, some included, some excluded, as suited the needs of the church at the time of assembly. Not to mention that every edition is at best a third-hand translation.

Originally Posted by IanS

The trouble with calling the new testament a history book is that the bible as it is now is a scattering of texts from divergent time periods, picked over, some included, some excluded, as suited the needs of the church at the time of assembly. Not to mention that every edition is at best a third-hand translation.

History is always written by the victors Ian. The truth is always somewhere in between the two sides writing.

Originally Posted by IanS

The trouble with calling the new testament a history book is that the bible as it is now is a scattering of texts from divergent time periods, picked over, some included, some excluded, as suited the needs of the church at the time of assembly. Not to mention that every edition is at best a third-hand translation.

The old testament is suspect as well.

The eleventh tablet of the oldest written text known to man (The Epic of Gilgamesh) appears to be the original Noah's Ark story.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Perhaps I did not spell it out correctly in my opening post. The question was not "was there a person named "Jesus" born ~2,000 years ago, but rather was the person that we all have come to know as Jesus, a rather singular figure in history, born ~2,000 years ago?

If your question is was there a biblical Jesus, man known to Christians as a Christ, son of God, then it is a matter of religion. We all have a right to believe (or not to believe) whatever we want, and we, as gentlemen, should respect everyones right to do so. No way it is a question to argue.

Another question is are there's really any hard facts that there ever was a man who made those supernatural miracles or if any of those episodes told in the Bible really happened as they are written. My guess is no.

Personally, I think that the person Jesus existed, and that some of what we know of his interactions with the romans and other people actually happened. He may even have died on the cross.

All the other things, like the date of his birth, his resurrection, his miracles, etc got chosen or embellished by the founders of Christianity to allow a smooth conversion from pagan beliefs into christianity. At least, that is my belief, based on things I read and the fact that many of the more mythical aspects correlate strongly with earlier pagan religions.

(Nurtured) yes, I've been lead to believe there was, are we celebrating "his" birth on the right day? not sure.

Originally Posted by Deryan

(Nurtured) yes, I've been lead to believe there was, are we celebrating "his" birth on the right day? not sure.

very good point on the exact date of his birth. that has always been a question for debate as to the type of calendar that was in use at the time of his birth. some say it was set at this time of year to overshadow pagan holiday or tradition. i still believe he was born and existed here on earth.

Of course there was a Jesus. He was the son of Joe Christ (who happened to be the head of the Carpenter's Local 12) and his wife Mary, although there is some question as to whether Mary was exactly faithful to poor old Joe. It was told around the inns and taverns at the time that Joe was impotent and when Mary was starting to show she was trying to run some jive by Joe and his brother Bob that she was actually a virgin and it must have been a miracle. Of course Joe wasn't too bright and Marycould be very , er, shall we say persuasive.

Originally Posted by 59caddy

so i guess pontius pilate was not a real person either?
Pontius Pilate

Pontius Pilate was never in question. To clarify, what I stated that an individual never existed that turned water into wine, or raised the dead. What was meant by my statement was that an historical individual with that name could have existed that the myths were based upon (A great teacher, a great leader...).

I welcome facts for the evidence of such a claim. The alleged similarities were mainly made up centuries after Jesus. Mithras was not a real person and certainly not born a baby human in a manger or anywhere else, he didn't exist except in mythology along with many other phoney satanic devils. The tales of him and the others which you refer to are time twisted conjecture.
The Bible on the other hand is mainly a history book full of eye witness accounts.