Thread: Respect vs. Blasphemy

"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."

Whoever coined that is a genius.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

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This is not so simple as the question that you have posed, it is just dependent on majority rule, though in some countries also minority rights. And most countries have had in their founding some sort of religious influence of some sort, and is therefore biased toward whatever religious influence that they had.
What's going on in the UK is the result of 'political correctness' and 'tolerance' gone bad. In the middle east I hear that there is a saying "Never let a camel stick it's nose in your tent." Why? Because if you do then before you know it you will have a big hulky hairy stinking camel in your tent. In the UK and the EU Islam is growing at a rather rapid pace, they slowly move in small areas and grow and spread, they have a comparatively very high birth rate, for one thing they don't kill little unborn babies, they 'use' the peaceful/moderate muslims to become entrenched in an area and eventually the fundamentalists start spreading there views and bullying their way into power and control, and as has been seen already they become so numerous that they just vote 'their guy' into office, and continue forward as pre-arranged. Of course they don't want the Holocaust taught because they hate the Jews more than anything and of course deny that it ever occured, and they don't want the Christian Crusades taught because they were brought about as a reaction to the conquests by Muslim War Lord in the Holy Land.

I would not respect a religion whose founder had little girls for wives, a practice still in effect today in certain parts though there is some attempt to keep it somewhat covered, it just depends on how much wealth power and influence that the dirtbag has. No manner of torturous death is too cruel for a fella who practices such depraved filth.

On a personal level, as a Bible believer and Christian, the Bible says to give honour to whom honour is due. Romans 13:7 - 'Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.' This is not dependent on a persons religion.

There is a lot of truth to these statements. Muslims by in large do not like Christians and Jews and anti-semitism varies among Christians. The sad part is Muslims believe in a war lord who could not read and write to be a "prophet". Muslim belief in Jesus is fundamentally the same as they believe he is coming back, they just differ basically in the book. I had a Muslim roommate that actually admitted that Mohammed was more of a war lord and murderer than prophet. Plus islam was started around 600AD so it was easy for Mohammed to call the book corrupt and declare himself a prophet based on the "might equals right" principle. The truth is that he was a murderer. Why muslims and Jews do not get along is understandable. The fought and took the Holy Land until after WWII when a group of people took it from them and gave it to the Jews after they had held that land for 1300+ years. Go figure. I watched the movie "Defiance" last night and was amazed that many of the characters said "we don't fight" or "someone will come". The Holocaust was terrible, but the difference between me and many of the Jewish people is that I would have died and taken many Germans with me before I let someone put me in a pen like an animal. Plus I have heard and read many sides to the Holocaust event and the hostility the Germans had toward the Jews was not only unnatural, but does not seem to be something that Hitler thought up by himself overnight. The Jews and Christians don't get along in many cases because the Jewish people I have been acquainted with consider themselves holy by birth and that God only loves Jews. Most Christians believe we are unholy and were made holy by the sacrifices of Christ whom the Jews hated because he pointed out their hypocrisy like many people point out against Christians today. But again we are all "delusional" to some people.
As to the statements about the original Bible, there is really no such thing. The John who wrote the parable came from a different source thean Matthew, Mark, and Luke. The Bible protestants read is different from the Catholic Bible and both are translations based on multiple different fragments of manuscripts that the Catholic Church wanted people to know. Much has been edited or left out.
None of this changes my faith though. Those who all religion a "delusion" in my mind are equally as delusional. Look at the cell, you can't create it (for those who would quote the Hershey Chase experiment, spare me) nor can you mimic its actions. You also can't explain why the human heart beats and how it begins. Sure embryologists will tell you that at about 3 weeks the tubed starts to pulse, but why? What sends the pulse from the brain to control the heart rate? Why does it do so?
Bottom line, believe what you want. I respect all religions, but I do not want to see the US become and Islamic state. I am also not a fan of diversity, let people keep their religion and beliefs in their home countries or around their own people. Don't bring it to mine and then tell me I have to respect it and don't tell me I am a bigot because I don't associate with them.

Xman,
Quite a good rousing debate you've started here! I will say this, religion is a prison of the soul, it limits you to the beliefs of one group, one culture, one perspective and in all aspects was derived out of a need to control man. I will say this growing up Catholic, there is a beauty to Jesus and Catholicism in an odd way, mostly in it's ornate practices, and perfunctory masses, and such, there's a beauty to statues, masses, and prayers etc.. from an artistic approach only.


I believe as Carl Sagan once said 'Science is slowly and methodically eating away at religion," This does not mean I don't believe in god, much like Carl Sagan, I believe in a higher power, but religion is man made. Most scientist who have pushed the limits of human knowlegde ie: Niehls Bore, Eienstein, Sir Maxwell, Hawking, etc... all believe in God, because he lies at the end of that logical pursuit imho. However religion is the problem, like many have said 'The devil is in the details" what do you do with a belief without someone to tell you how to practice it lol.

I think muslims are of two types ( I am as Darwin said a Categorizing animal) those who are convinced of extremism much like the crazed baptist in the south of the rapture, and have been convinced of this through poverty, ignorance and those who seek to use God for political views and power, and thus these types of Muslims hate Christians, Jews and everyone not Muslim. The other type are god fearing people who are not violent, but sadly the Muslim religion has a tendency or penchance towards violence and radicalism in our time.

I also think all histories should be allowed to be taught in schools, as long as it is interesting and useful, as far as the EU's extremely PC way of dealing with muslims, I will say this, tolerance sounds great from the Balcony or Boxes, but if your down in the trenches it can be no fun, if you say are one of those Scandavian women who got raped by someone who thought she was a whore because she dressed provactively. It all depends on the perspective I guess.

I don't think pc should be the norm for people or governments, I say have a sense of humor be able to laugh at yourself, your beliefs because in the grand scheme of thing in the universe were are infinitesimally small, and special at the same time.

I'll leave you guys with this old saying 'There are no atheists in Fox Holes."

Ok enough of my soap boxing.
Cheers
David

If you'll allow a hermit to comment.

Originally Posted by ControlFreak1

...In the UK and the EU Islam is growing at a rather rapid pace, they slowly move in small areas and grow and spread, they have a comparatively very high birth rate, for one thing they don't kill little unborn babies, they 'use' the peaceful/moderate muslims to become entrenched in an area and eventually the fundamentalists start spreading there views and bullying their way into power and control, and as has been seen already they become so numerous that they just vote 'their guy' into office, and continue forward as pre-arranged.

Doesn't this describe exactly the process of evangelism or proselytization, regardless of religious belief system?

It seems that when the precepts of the faith do not sway people, politics become the next method for control. Once political control is established it is possible to re-write the law to prevent objections to behaviors. Or re-write history or even religious texts.

Given that most religious systems adhere to very similar values about how to treat people, the flaw is not the religion, but the behavior of the believers that calls things into question.

In general, i do not have any problems about people believing whatever religion they choose. All are equal.
It is another thing what people are doing in the names of their Gods. I might have problems sometimes trying to understand manners, speeches or acts that are beyond understanding.

I always enjoy these threads. You get to see everyones hidden agendas come to light.

I salute you X-Man.

With that said.... I dont prescribe to any specific religion, but i respect everyone elses right to believe in what they see fit.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

With that said.... I dont prescribe to any specific religion, but i respect everyone elses right to believe in what they see fit.

I agree with this until it infringes on my right to not believe.

I didn't vote. However, let me just make one observation here.

Humans are fanatical in organizing themselves into compact social groups and looking at others outside that group as alien and the enemy and have no issue slaughtering those outside their group. This has been a recurring and illogical theme since the first man-ape walked the earth and Chimps basically do the same.

This behavior can be rearranged and manipulated so when two tribes who have been killing each other at every opportunity for many years are
faced with a common enemy they can suddenly be the best of friends for the duration of the conflict and then go back to their old ways. That's one of the problems with the current middle east situation. The inhabitants of the middle east have been killing each other for hundreds of years but the presence of Israel and now the U.S has united them against the west in general.

Religion is just another way for people to insulate themselves from each other and is another social group. Probably religion has been used as an excuse to kill more people than any other reason.

Humans are a violent species and religion has helped make that even more so.

Thebigspendour I agree...and in the words of Frankie:

"when two tribes go to war, a point is all you can score"

Cheers
David

Originally Posted by jcd

"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."

Whoever coined that is a genius.

Nah, they were just another FOOL or as some say jus' uh FOO', that's F double O L, FOOL.


For those who think that they all deserve respect, do you remember Matamoros, Mexico about 20 years ago when some Spring Breakers disappeared there? It's across the border from Brownsville, Texas and they finally found some of their remains on a ranch there where the people were practicing their religion of witchcraft and killing people who they could catch and take there to sacrifice and would torture them to death, the longer and more painful the better, they believed that it gave them power and the younger and more innocent the better too, and they would eat parts of them while they were still alive.
What about that type of religion? You respect that do you?