Thread: Losing all hope for humanity...

I'm far more disturbed by the lack of respect for a random elder than the language.

Only five and already ruined. its a shame

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

I was hit, I am not messed up

I was hit too, and I'm not messed up. But it is the one thing I have never forgiven my father for. I thought it was wrong then, and I think it's wrong now.

I have a 7yo boy -- he is polite, respectful, happy, well-behaved mostly, and I am fiercely proud of him. I have never hit him, and have only smacked his bottom once in his life when he disrespected his mother.

Firm, clear and fair parenting does not necessitate hitting. You can be fearsome, strong, and disciplinary without resorting to whacking your child across the face (as I was, for example). Just because I don't hit my children does not mean I'm soft on them! I'm tough with them alright -- there are so many ways to lay down the law. Hitting is, in my opinion, unimaginative and too easy to resort to.

My boy has never hit his little sister, indeed is very respectful of his peers when interacting with them. He's no pansy either -- if one of his mates starts hitting he will defend himself, hitting back if necessary. He knows the difference between violence and self-defence.

Who knows what the future holds? But I'm confident that I have laid the groundwork with my son, the evidence is there, and he won't be resenting his old man for beating him when he's grown up.

I guess I'm saying that if you're a good and firm parent, hitting may not be detrimental in the long term, but almost always unnecessary (stress 'almost').

When I think about hitting a child for disciplin I think of a good firm smack on the bum. I believe anything else is taking things too far.

Now while i believe that hiting a child, is acceptable, only in extreem circumstances. I am also aware of other methods of punishing children. a friend of mine told me that one day when his teachers had called his parents into school to discuss his behaviour. by the time he got home he found his bedroom empty.
All the room contained was a desk to do his home work, and a single shelf with 2 changes of clothes, and his school uniform. and his matress pillows on betting on the floor.
His parents had then set up weekly meetings with his teacher to monitor his behaviour. and had given him a list of tasks to perform daily, if he fufilled all of these criteria, her earned "credits" and he could choos what to spend these on, obviously the more luxurious items such as a tv cost more, but more clothes ect cost less.

aparently it took him 18 months on this system to get his stuff, back.

This has to be a great system, as its not only punished you when your bad. but rewards hard work and good behaviour not only at home but at school as well, and instills a work ethic.

i think If i one day have children i shal be adopting this system

I must say, I agree with Majurey. I'm not going to pitch a huge fit over someone smacking their kid's bum, but from what I have seen, violence begets violence.

I think what I'm seeing here is a very utopian view of the past. This imaginary "Golden Age" everyone seems to think exists.

Childhood is not losing innocence at all, when you compare it to the child labor and rampant (legal) child abuse of the past.

When you consider few children today die of illness.

When you think about kids getting beaten with canes in school.

What we have is a different sort of childhood. Psychologically more challenging, but as far as the safety of the world and the time alloted for being a kid, much better.

There are crappy parents out there. There always have been. And there probably always will be.

But society is not in decline. Society is in constant flux, which brings both positive and negative change.

I also think that parents should take an individual approach to their children. What works on one child does not work on another.

My father adopted a very "try it for yourself" approach to raising me. He recognized early that I wanted to take life by the horns and do everything. So he made absolutely damn sure that our relationship was such that I would ALWAYS talk to him about my problems.

I was very hands-on. That's how I learn. So when I wanted to eat nothing but fast food when I was 6, my dad said, "Sure, go ahead. I think it's a bad idea, but if you think I'm wrong, go ahead."

A week later, I was in horrendous pain and have hardly touched fast food since. My dad was right.

He did the same thing with drinking when I was a teenager. "You want to drink? Ok. Have as much as you like. Let's see how well you know your limits."

I didn't know them at all, it turned out. My dad stood in the doorway of the bathroom, as I was busy being ill, and said, "Now you know, right kiddo?"

What wound up happening was that I learned to consult my dad about life decisions, and when he gave me his advice, I took it seriously. He very rarely needed to discipline me. I punished myself often enough by being young and dumb. And he understood the way I worked well enough that he knew that as long as he was aware of what I was doing, I was going to be fine. I just needed to see for myself.

But when he did need to punish, it was never violent. He'd take away my phone or internet, groundings, etc. One time I got really bad on homework and he required a writen note every day from my teachers on what my homework was. He kept that up for months until I got my head around the idea of just doing it.

That, to me, was a huge punishment. I am a person who is very attached to my freedom, and my father mostly gave it to me. When it was taken away, it was painful. The idea behind this was that I was given as much freedom as I earned.

How he approached parenting me wouldn't work with a lot of children, but it was exactly the sort of thing that I responded to as a kid. He put some actual thought and effort into raising me, and picked a method that worked.

That's what we need. Not more beatings.

I got spanked on the bum when I was little. I probably got spanked no more than 5 times my entire life, but when I did I thoroughly deserved it..!

I'm not mal-adjusted or anything. I would like to think that I am respectful, courteous, polite and hard working. Heck, I'm an accountant, how more straight laced can you get...?!

Once I grew up a bit, my parents didnt need to spank me any more, just the threat of knowing where the line was drawn was enough! If we played up, we used to get things like no TV for a week, or being grounded, or not being allowed on the computer. That was pretty darn effective, and its certainly something I would do with my kids, as and when I have them.

The relationship I have with my parents now is more like friends. I enjoy their company and I will do things like take meet my mum for lunch or go and grab a bottle of wine with my dad.

But the only reason we have that relationship now is because we had a parent/child relationship when I was younger. If they hadnt shown me the rules, been firm but fair and instilled me with a work ethic, we probably wouldnt get on so well now. I'd probably think they were annoying tyrants and they'd think I was a stroppy layabout!

Thank God for them, is all I have to say. I'm very lucky to have such great parents.

Originally Posted by BigIan

I was Just stood on my front doorstep having a cigarette when a young girl who could only have been 4 or 5 walked mast and said "what the **** are you looking at knob head."
Firstly should she be walking the streets on her own at that age? Bear in mind that the houses around here have no gardens so there is only pavment and road. Our house is 10 meters from a branch road and lony 100 meters from a very busy main road.
And seconly where dide she learn language like that? when i was that age "boobies" was the worst swear work i knew, and i wouldnt dare say it infront of an adult. Let alone use it as an afront to one.

Seriously what is the world coming to?

BigIan,

In answer to your first question...No she shouldn't. And being run over by a motor vehicle is the least of her problems. These days, it's a miracle that she wasn't snatched by a two-legged predator, ravished and murdered.

As for your second question...It's not the nanny state, but our own imperfections as human beings and the constant repetition of negative messages from media--especially "reality" TV--and her own parents where she learned such rude and crude language and behavior. If that 5 year old exhibited no respect towards you, she most likely has no respect for her parents or any other type of authority--earthly or otherwise.

Childhood innocence, imho, is a myth, born of the days when high mortality rates made children a precious gift to parents and society. Children are just as capable of being bad as adults--or as my minister would say, we are all born in sin.

That is why parenting and communicating what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior--otherwise known as proper upbringing or moral training--is so important for children and the survival of civilization.

Just my 2 cents.

I love that system of punishment. I read a book once (fiction) where an extreme version of this punishment was used by guards in a Chines prison camp in Tibet. It's deliciously twisted how it makes it feel like the people who are punishing you are actually rewarding you. Where a good spanking would make you hate the person giving the punishment, this form makes you like the person who is correcting the behavior.

It's so easy to blame the parents, but if it's true that it takes a village to raise a child, it's clear that we live in a village that just doesn't give a damn. Where would a child learn such disrespect and such languge? Let's see, maybe the internet, TV, movies, videos, magazines, and let's not rule out even the local library. And how about movie trailers they might come upon on their parents' computer?

Hmm... Maybe I should have phrased that better... I didn't mean to say that my father was prone to hitting me when I misbehaved... He did it rarely -I'd say a few times a year... But I was a stubborn lad- The only time he'd used anything other than his hand, well, there were a few situations, but let me explain: He only hit me with a belt once, and lightly, and this was after I had -as an act of rebellion towards a previous punishment- set up a row of what I now know to be my grandmother's antique china (stupid, Jeremy, STUPID) and threw rocks at them, breakign them... To this day I still feel terribly guilty for that, and think the belt was wholly deserved... After that instance, if I was misbehaving and he snapped his belt (Y'know, fold it in half, hold both ends and pop it) I'd stop whatever I was doing, stare at him, and get ready to follow the next thing out of his mouth to a T. He never used the belt again other than like that. Also, He never hit me more than a light cuff on the ear, or a good swat on the rear...

I know some parents take it too far, but I will never grudge what he did.

Cheers,
Jeremy