Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Hey, who are these guys from outside the U.S telling us their system is great and they love it? We here in the U.S know that simply isn't true. They must be ringers sent in by the Liberals to make us think that system works.

You can't compare the Govt mandate system with auto insurance or the Govt telling people they have do do or buy something. Besides anyone remember the draft. You got a letter and you went and you served and maybe you died or were never the same again isn't that making you do something you never wanted to do?

At any rate with healthcare if you don't think you need it it's not like forcing you to buy a product because if you don't want the product you don't buy it but if you have a heart attack and and you have no insurance and have no money do you do nothing and die? No, you wind up in the emergency room and everyone else gets stuck with the bill.

Maybe they should change law and policy so when someone goes to the emergency room you pay up front or your shown the door. After people start dying in enough numbers people will demand a Govt plan.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Maybe they should change law and policy so when someone goes to the emergency room you pay up front or your shown the door. After people start dying in enough numbers people will demand a Govt plan.

Better yet, how about they treat you and save your life, and then, as an act of immense gratitude to the doctors and staff who saved you, you wash dishes in the hospital cafeteria for the rest of your life??

Originally Posted by honedright

Better yet, how about they treat you and save your life, and then, as an act of immense gratitude to the doctors and staff who saved you, you wash dishes in the hospital cafeteria for the rest of your life??

That's a great idea. You could be an indentured servant and empty bedpans and wash floors and wash dishes for years.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

That's a great idea. You could be an indentured servant and empty bedpans and wash floors and wash dishes for years.

Oh but guys like you are too good for that eh? You were a cop right? You could provide security services for a hospital until your debt was paid, saving the hospital extra expense.

If you can't pay your bill in dollars and cents, then pay in time and service. That is the American way.

When did America stop being the land of the free and home of the brave, and become the home of the lazy looking for handouts??

How embarrassing

Originally Posted by honedright

Oh but guys like you are too good for that eh? You were a cop right? You could provide security services for a hospital until you debt was paid, saving the hospital extra expense.

If you can't pay your bill in dollars and cents, then pay in time and service. That is the American way.

When did America stop being the land of the free and home of the brave, and become the home of the lazy looking for handouts??

How embarrassing

4 November 2008....hope that answers your question

Originally Posted by BAMARACING8

4 November 2008....hope that answers your question

Oh you may be correct, but I suspect that date only heralded the flowering, but not the sowing. I think maybe the seeds were cast by JP. Morgan and his Jekyl Island cronies? Maybe a bit later by FDR? Who knows...

Maybe at this point it doesn't matter. What matters now is damage control.

honed i agree with you on the damage control for sure!...........it just seems that the middle class is getting shafted yet again from people being lazy wanting all the handouts..this is off topic but the other day on the news they had al sharpton and some other guy discussing how the president hasnt done enough for "black america" i am in no way trying to turn this into any sort of racial slur or debate but last time i checked this is the United States of America.....where everyone has the equal opprotunity to work hard and have a succsesful life....the point i am trying to make is when is this train wreck going to stop. people need to quit wanting a government handout and get outside and go do work

Originally Posted by honedright

Oh but guys like you are too good for that eh? You were a cop right? You could provide security services for a hospital until you debt was paid, saving the hospital extra expense.

If you can't pay your bill in dollars and cents, then pay in time and service. That is the American way.

When did America stop being the land of the free and home of the brave, and become the home of the lazy looking for handouts??

How embarrassing

Is that why we have so much credit card debt and people who bought houses they couldn't afford?

What happens when the hospital can't find enough shifts for the thousands of people that owe it tens of thousand of dollars? What happens to the people whose job you take to work off your medical bills? Who pays for your kids while you work off your debt? C'mon...

Modern healthcare is simply too expensive for anyone other than the very wealthy to pay for. It's as simple as that. The pooling of risk funds is the only way to pay for it and we're all dependent on each other in that situation.

It's been asked once and nobody answered. Is health care a right? If not, how come we don't turn people away from ERs? How come we pay for Medicare? How come we have Medicaid? Should we scrap those and let everyone fend for themselves? We need to answer that question before we say what our system is supposed to accomplish.

With regard to the military, if I'm not mistaken, the VA is an example of the government providing care directly. VA doctors work for the government and we see the result. This is not what we need. Under Medicare, for example, the gov. pays private companies to adminster the plan and private practitioners provide the care and by and large, it works.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

It's been asked once and nobody answered. Is health care a right?

It's a privilege. I assume that ERs can't turn people away because it's mandated mercy. The constitution serves to give the federal government a mandate to protect your rights from those who are trying to take them away from you, not to give them a mandate to provide your rights or to force you to take advantage of your rights.

It would be nice if those who want to change the purpose of the constitution to include this kind of mandate would change it via amendment, but I guess not everything happens in an ideal fashion

Originally Posted by jnich67

Is that why we have so much credit card debt and people who bought houses they couldn't afford?

What happens when the hospital can't find enough shifts for the thousands of people that owe it tens of thousand of dollars? What happens to the people whose job you take to work off your medical bills? Who pays for your kids while you work off your debt? C'mon...

Modern healthcare is simply too expensive for anyone other than the very wealthy to pay for. It's as simple as that. The pooling of risk funds is the only way to pay for it and we're all dependent on each other in that situation.

It's been asked once and nobody answered. Is health care a right? If not, how come we don't turn people away from ERs? How come we pay for Medicare? How come we have Medicaid? Should we scrap those and let everyone fend for themselves? We need to answer that question before we say what our system is supposed to accomplish.

With regard to the military, if I'm not mistaken, the VA is an example of the government providing care directly. VA doctors work for the government and we see the result. This is not what we need. Under Medicare, for example, the gov. pays private companies to adminster the plan and private practitioners provide the care and by and large, it works.

Jordan

"What happens when the hospital can't find enough shifts for the thousands of people that owe it tens of thousand of dollars?"

You really think there are that many deadbeats out there? Well, first of all good for the hospitals and medical clinics! Imagine how many hospitals could be built and run on the labor of debtors! Imagine the cost savings. Can't pay your bill for open heart surgery? Have no insurance? Great, get treated and then help the hospital landscaping department. Fresh air, physical therapy, needed exercise - and let's not forget - you owe the hospital something...so work it off.

"What happens to the people whose job you take to work off your medical bills? Who pays for your kids while you work off your debt?"

C'mon - as Bigspendur pointed out, there are plenty of jobs that others wont do like emptying bed pans and such. But really - if there is such a deficit in this country of health care service, then there is no doubt and endless supply of ancillary jobs that could be performed by "debtors" without threatening anyone's job. Also, you must buy into the economic fallacy of "Full Employment." If a hospital can get someone to do a job as repayment for a hospital service in lieu of cash payment, then it benefits the hospital. Any supposed displaced "employees," if they are qualified, can go find work elsewhere. Were not talking about doctors and nurses here - but janitors, security, food service, etc.

Oh, and who pays for your kids? You do! Get a second job. Work out a deal with the hospital for food. Get creative. But don't go out begging. Get up off your @$$ and make something of yourself. Sounds harsh don't it?

Actually if there were more people with a "pick-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps" attitude, then there would more than likely be more than enough resources for those TRULY in need of help. But instead our government is, and has been for years, cultivating a larger and larger class of dependents who could help themselves, but don't have to, and therefore don't.

Really - stop looking for excuses for laziness.


Modern healthcare is simply too expensive for anyone other than the very wealthy to pay for. It's as simple as that. The pooling of risk funds is the only way to pay for it and we're all dependent on each other in that situation.

"It's been asked once and nobody answered. Is health care a right? If not, how come we don't turn people away from ERs?"

No, it's not a right. Do you have a "right" to the services of any other profession? Why not? Look up the definition of "Right." People are not turned away from ER wards because doctors take an oath to treat. Imagine how long a doctor's career would last refusing patients on the basis of ability to pay. Imagine the lawsuits. Not good.

"How come we pay for Medicare?" Do we have a choice?

"Should we scrap those and let everyone fend for themselves?" Interesting. What would have happened in this country if, instead of creating Social Security, the government had instead promoted a program teaching people how to save and invest. Then instead of giving their money to Uncle Sam, they could have grown it for themselves. How much would a few thousand dollars (I'm guessing here) invested in 1937, for instance, in the stock market, be worth today? What if everyone were doing that? Is that "fending for yourself"?