Thread: Big hub-bub in Arizona right now...

Originally Posted by Desdinova

Yeah, like when they targeted the fast driver community with stiffer fines for speeding.

Whether we agree or not, it is called "illegal" immigration. It is called this because there are laws against it. Laws are enforced and have punishments attached.

The problem that's got so many folks all a-twitter isn't the concept of going after illegal immigrants; the concern is that the enforcement of the law would result in too many innocent US citizens, who are of hispanic/latino descent, being disproportionately stopped/ affected by this law.

As far as another poster's comment about how we're already required to carry proof of citizenship-type ID, and that if you're stopped without having it on you, you can be detained--I don't know about you, but there are tons of times I'm out and about sans any ID (jogging on the beach; walking my dogs; etc.) and I wouldn't want to be subject to being detained by the police in those instances.
If I'm correct-I believe the new law requires that there be probable cause first before the authorities can ask for proof of citizenship, but we've all seen too many instances of how that prophylactic restriction gets abused...

quote: I'm sorry, but this is America and to profile people like this is racist and down right unAmerican. :quote

Oh, unfortunately, it's VERY American....
Every minority group comming to this country has gone through it.
Should they have...no...but they did.

And before we start hollaring "racisim", a whole lot of these "so called" minorities are just as "racist" towards other cultures beyond their own.

I've got at least 5 different "nationalities" in my background. So I'm one of the last great minorities.....mongrel American.

Cheers!
No Irish Need Apply......

Originally Posted by billyjeff2

If I'm correct-I believe the new law requires that there be probable cause first before the authorities can ask for proof of citizenship, but we've all seen too many instances of how that prophylactic restriction gets abused...

You are correct. The new law also states that there must already be contact (they can't stop you merely for suspicion of being illegal) and the probable cause can't be based solely on race.

Still, just as you've said, that's easy enough to circumvent. The MCSO (Maricopa County Sheriff's Office) engages in profiling all the time, with the flimsiest of justification.

And we know people like to abuse their role in power and will decide that based on this law they can vent out their feelings of hate.

Originally Posted by shutterbug

And before we start hollaring "racisim", a whole lot of these "so called" minorities are just as "racist" towards other cultures beyond their own.

So? That doesn't make it right.

White people can be so insensitive to non-white pain. This new law is encouraging cops to stop anyone they feel may be here illegally. I don't thing they will be looking for North Koreans or eastern Europeans. As the majority of Arizona residents are hispanic, I will bet that there will be many folks having their civil rights violated. Glen, we are not required to carry any proof of citizenship. I don't. I only carry my driver's license and as far as I know, you don't have to be a citizen to have one of those. The guy who drafted the new law has strong ties with white supremist orgs. Arizona is also the home of the Minutemen violent vigilante group. Arizona is not really known to be the stately home of constitutional equality. There are even high level Republicans (including Jeb Bush and Carl Rove) voicing opinions that this new law is misguided and bound to run into constitutional violations. The issue is that the security of our borders is the job of the federal government and they (neither party) seem to want to do anything to keep illegals out.

Originally Posted by icedog

White people can be so insensitive to non-white pain.

'scuse me?

Looks back, and sho nuff can't find anywhere I said "Citizenship"

The key to any effective Immigration law is to control the border, totally. But how are you going to do that? I spent a career in the Immigration game and I can tell you it will never happen.

Originally Posted by shutterbug

quote: I'm sorry, but this is America and to profile people like this is racist and down right unAmerican. :quote

Oh, unfortunately, it's VERY American....
Every minority group comming to this country has gone through it.
Should they have...no...but they did.

And before we start hollaring "racisim", a whole lot of these "so called" minorities are just as "racist" towards other cultures beyond their own.

I've got at least 5 different "nationalities" in my background. So I'm one of the last great minorities.....mongrel American.

Cheers!
No Irish Need Apply......

I beg to differ...What is VERY American is the freedom to speak our minds--even in a forum such as this.

The fact that every minority group has experienced the same anti-immigrant ordeal does not make it right. A wrong is still a wrong no matter how you slice it. It was wrong to categorize Irish immigrants as the tertium quid of humanity before the Civil War, just as it was wrong to categorize Italians, Russian Jews, Chinese, Japanese, and Eastern Europeans before WWI as a sub-species of humanity.

We've come a long way, but the path has not been smooth. Nor has it been straight. I wonder why? Why does this nation of immigrants continue to revisit and re-enact the same nativist act and the same nativist lines in the same nativist play over and over and over again? I wonder...